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re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.

Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:14 pm to
Posted by Socratics
Virginia Beach
Member since Dec 2013
2477 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:14 pm to
He is being sued for action taking during his trips to Uganda. Why he can be sued?

CCR = Center for Constitutional Rights
quote:


The Center for Constitutional Rights has announced this morning that they are filing a lawsuit on behalf of Sexual Minorities of Uganda (SMUG) against American anti-gay extremist Scott Lively for his role in “the decade-long campaign he has waged, in coordination with his Ugandan counterparts, to persecute persons on the basis of their gender and/or sexual orientation and gender identity.” CCR announced its action this morning in a conference call with reporters. I was among those participating in the call.

CCR is bringing the suit under the Alien Tort Statute, which provides federal jurisdiction for “any civil action by an alien, for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States.” In other words, it allows a foreign national to sue in U.S. courts for violations of U.S. or international law conducted by U.S. citizens overseas. According to CCR, the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed that ATS is a remedy for serious violations of international law norms that are “widely accepted and clearly defined.”

The crime against humanity in international law that CCR alleges that Lively violated is the crime of persecution, which is defined as the “intentional and severe deprivation of fundamental rights contrary to international law by reason of the identity of the group or collectivity.” CCR alleges that the defendant plaintif, Sexual Minorities Uganda, as well as individual staff members and member organizations, suffered severe deprivations of fundamental rights as a direct result of a coordinated campaign “largely initiated, instigated and directed” by Scott Lively.


Some of of Scott lively's actions.
quote:

Lively is best known for his role, reported first here on BTB, as featured speaker at an anti-gay conference held in Kampala in March 2009. During that conference, Lively touted his book, The Pink Swastika, in which he claimed that gays were responsible for founding the Nazi Party and running the gas chambers in the Holocaust. Lively then went on to blame the Rwandan genocide on gay men and he charged that gay people were flooding into Uganda from the West to recruit children into homosexuality via child sexual molestation.

During that same trip, Lively met with several members of Uganda’s Parliament. Only two weeks later, there were already rumors that Parliament was drafting a new law that “will be tough on homosexuals.” That new law, in its final form, would be introduced into Parliament later in October. Meanwhile, the public panic stoked by the March conference led to follow-up meetings, a march on Parliament, and a massive vigilante campaign waged on radio and the tabloid press. Lively would later boast that his March 2009 talk was a “nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.”

In the complaint filed in Federal District Court, CCR provides details of Lively’s activities in Uganda going back to 2002, when Lively began touring Uganda and establishing contacts with leading Ugandan figures, including Stephen Langa (who organized the March 2009 conference) and Pentecostal pastor Martin Ssempa. While there, he was interviewed for major daily newspapers and appeared on radio and television. In a conference call with reporters, Spees said that Lively’s particular influence on Uganda’s religious leaders was the primary avenue for “telegraphing the sense of terror” through his accusations against the gay community, and that influence picked up significantly following the 2009 conference. The complaint includes several examples where Lively’s rhetoric showed up virtually verbatim in statements from Ugandan religious and political leaders. She also pointed out that the preamble of the bill’s original draft included language that was lifted straight out of conference materials.

Tarso Luís Ramos, Executive Director of Political Research Associates, echoed Spees’s assertion that Lively’s influence played a major role in the growing climate of persecution in Uganda. He described the main avenue of influence as from religious leaders like Lively to prominent Ugandan religious leaders who also wield considerable moral and political influence. Ramons said that during Lively’s 2009 trip to Uganda, he also met with members of the Ugandan Christian Lawyers Association and members of Parliament, and spoke at an assembly of 5,000 college students and at major pentecostal churches. According to the complaint, M.P. David Bahati, author of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, was among those who attended the Kampala conference. Bahati and former Ethics and Integrity Minister James Nsaba Buturo were also named as co-conspirators in the complaint.

Ramos and Spees contrasted Lively’s role with that of the secretive U.S. organization known as The Family or The Fellowship. Spees described Lively as the “go-to guy whose rhetoric went into hyperspace to stamp out” LGBT people “in a strategic way.” She alleged that he provided a “tangible, clear plan” in contrast to The Family, which tried to distance itself from the bill. One part of the “clear plan” outlined in the complaint was Lively’s recommendation for the criminalization of LGBT advocacy in Uganda. That recommendation became Clause 13 in the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.


Lawsuit Filed Against Scott Lively For Instigating Anti-LGBT Persecution in Uganda
Hes going way beyond religious norms against Homo-sexuality. I mean this guy actually sounds like he had a pretty big role in the gay persecution in Uganda. Even has some of his words in the actual anti-gay bill in Uganda. He also pushed anti-gay laws in Russia as well. I don't know if they can build a case against him ,but this guy is despicable. God would never promote such extreme hatred.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 12:25 pm
Posted by darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
7701 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:24 pm to
So his crime was what? He held a rally?
Posted by darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
7701 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Socratics


Judge Ponsor relies upon the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ("ICC") for his definitions of "persecution" and "crime against humanity", which the complaint alleges Pastor Lively aided and abetted by his support for the anti-gay actions and agenda of members of Uganda's government. However, the United States has never ratified the Rome Statute.

Judge Ponsor acknowledges that no current international treaty or compact, including the Rome Statute, makes discrimination against persons on account of their sexual orientation expressly subject to its terms.

Judge Ponsor holds that Pastor Lively, who visited Uganda twice in 2002 and then not again until 2009, could be regarded as a "co-conspirator" with a member of the Ugandan legislature who introduced proposed legislation against homosexual behavior (the bill never passed).

Judge Ponsor also holds that Pastor Lively may be held responsible in Massachusetts for the alleged anti-gay sentiment aroused in Uganda by his authorship of two books published in the United States in 2007 and 2009 and describing and attacking the gay rights agenda in the United States, even though the plaintiff organization could not allege that any Ugandan police or government officials who implemented that country's own anti-gay agenda against its members had actually read either book.

Judge Ponsor declines to apply Ugandan law to the offenses of civil conspiracy and negligence alleged in the complaint -- because Uganda does not recognize the tort of civil conspiracy, while Massachusetts does, and because the concept of "duty of care" under Ugandan negligence law was unclear. Recognizing that the plaintiff could not sue Pastor Lively in Uganda for these offenses, Judge Ponsor throws open the doors of his courtroom so that the plaintiff will have a forum for its grievances.

Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 8:46 pm to
quote:

Scott Lively


I am ashamed this individual is a fellow American. He broke a custom of interfering and harming a foreign society and has a huge role in the violence in Uganda.

Interfering with a foreign society in the manner he did is absolutely shameful and he should be punished for it, not by Uganda but by fellow Americans.

America has to carry a standard as the world's most powerful country and we have to be an example for the rest of the world to follow and he dishonored that standard.
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