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Message
re: Rewatched the game.........(WARNING: TL;DR)
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:17 am to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:17 am to Tiger Voodoo
I think the most disappointing players have been Barrow and Loston. Welter is not an SEC linebacker, but Barrow was expected to be a stalwart for us. In my opinion, he has played every bit as poorly as Welter.
Loston is projected as a high draft pick, but he has not ball awareness whatsoever. He is a great hitter, but his type aggression is being removed from the game with the targeting rules. He does not cover well, and he never plays the ball, and now he can't even punish receivers the way he used to without risk of being tossed.
I think our linebacker play is causing most of the difficulties for the defensive play calling, and I am very hopeful that some changes are in store at that position.
All that being said, I have always dreaded watching Chief call passive defenses during the last few minutes of games that we lead be 7 or less. He almost never rushes more than 4, and often only three. That seems like a huge mistake against a very good 4th year drop back passer.
Georgia did not make the same mistake when we got the ball back losing by 3. They came after Mettenberger, and it was the right approach to take.
Loston is projected as a high draft pick, but he has not ball awareness whatsoever. He is a great hitter, but his type aggression is being removed from the game with the targeting rules. He does not cover well, and he never plays the ball, and now he can't even punish receivers the way he used to without risk of being tossed.
I think our linebacker play is causing most of the difficulties for the defensive play calling, and I am very hopeful that some changes are in store at that position.
All that being said, I have always dreaded watching Chief call passive defenses during the last few minutes of games that we lead be 7 or less. He almost never rushes more than 4, and often only three. That seems like a huge mistake against a very good 4th year drop back passer.
Georgia did not make the same mistake when we got the ball back losing by 3. They came after Mettenberger, and it was the right approach to take.
2
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:19 am to windhammontanatigers
quote:
I read all and when you have something of substance to say then nothing too long to make your point.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:20 am to Dudebro2
quote:
And there is the issue that blows your entire argument apart. The first 4 games were meant to get the personnel and scheme issues figured out. If they haven't by now it is because we truly have big issues on defense.
Again, the same thing could have been said about our offense last year after the Auburn, Towson, and Florida games.
But then we started focusing on the run, and eventually the passing game came alive by the Bama game.
Things can be corrected during the season, but it takes time.
Now I don't think our D has the potential to become dominant the way our O did last year, but they could certainly improve, especially when they aren't playing one of the best offenses in the country.
I was one of the guys on here last week talking about the serious issues on D and that they weren't just "gassed because we went conservative".
Maybe it's just that my expectations were so low, but I did see some positive things from the D this week even though UGA played great and made plays. As someone else said, the front seven has issues and it's just kind of odd. Can't really figure out what is happening there, but trying to pressure Murray with just our front four was futile, and I think if Chavis gets creative with generating pass rush things could be solidified
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 11:25 am
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:28 am to bfniii
quote:
the defenses aren't as bad as everyone is making them out. those are 2 highly potent offenses that will make lots of defenses look silly.
That is complete and utter bullshite!!
Would you consider Oregon's offense good? Yep I think everyone would agree it is. When LSU played Oregon 2 years ago, did our defense make their offense look average, I think people would agree yes we did.
Would you consider A&M's offense good, did our defense make their offense look average last year. I think everyone would agree yes we did. And even Clemson who looks unstoppable this year, we actually held them pretty well in check until the 4th qtr in the bowl game.
So you are wrong a good defense will stop a good offense. Our defense looks like shite and is playing like shite. Defense wins championships, just look at the last 7 BCS-NC's to confirm that.
You can not allow teams to rush for over 4.5yds per carry and expect anything good to come of it. Our offense is now at the level where we can count on it to win games for us, but if we really want to vie for an SEC and National championship our defense needs to figure it out fast. Because I will go on record now stating that if our defense doesn't figure it out, no way we get to Atlanta unless it is in the chick-fil-a bowl.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:37 am to Tiger Voodoo
I have no idea how you can say "As good as Ego and Freak have been.."
Freak is flying down draft boards in the wrong direction. He's getting single teamed and making no plays. I believe Ego and Freak combined for 4 tackles Saturday? And honestly I think Ego is playing solid, like a 7 out of 10, but right now Freak looks pitiful. I'd take Chris Davenport over Freak right now. Actually, I'm not even calling him Freak anymore because nothing about his play has been freakish.
Freak is flying down draft boards in the wrong direction. He's getting single teamed and making no plays. I believe Ego and Freak combined for 4 tackles Saturday? And honestly I think Ego is playing solid, like a 7 out of 10, but right now Freak looks pitiful. I'd take Chris Davenport over Freak right now. Actually, I'm not even calling him Freak anymore because nothing about his play has been freakish.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:38 am to Dudebro2
quote:
So you are wrong a good defense will stop a good offense. Our defense looks like shite and is playing like shite.
You're being verrrrrrry un-Dude, bro.
Look, no one is saying we have some great D that will shut down Oregon.
But there is a difference between that type of defense and "playing like shite".
The defense absolutely has issues, but they made some plays here and there. Again, holding a great offense like UGA to 4/11 on 3rd downs is worthy of some praise and could be something to build on.
We need to figure out how to generate some pass rush, and LB play must get better to slow down the run games.
We aren't going to be gang busters on D this year, that's pretty clear. But we don't have to be.
I still think the comparison to our O last year is valid. After Auburn, Towson, and Florida, I think everyone thought we were completely fricked on offense. Then HIll stepped up, the OL gelled, and Mett started slinging it all over the place by the Bama game.
If a couple of young guys step up (they're not as young anymore), and we can get some well timed blitz/stunts called, the D can make strides.
And with our O, it won't take much improvement for us to be in great shape at the end of the year.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:38 am to Housplants
quote:
Loston
quote:
is a great hitter
myth
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:39 am to LSUButt
quote:
Ego and Freak combined for 4 tackles Saturday
all 4 were assists iirc
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:41 am to TJG210
quote:
You do realize Gurley was getting nearly 10yds every time he touched the ball, and that we gave up 300yds in the first half?
No he doesn't, anyone that looks at that game and can come away with "it is not that bad" is just fooling themselves.
Our defense was pathetic plain and simple. In the past when we have faced great offenses "Oregon & A&M" just to name 2, our great defenses have shut down their offenses plain and simple. Our defense sucks arse and the UGA game just highlighted it, it didn't define it that had already been done in the first 4 games. What the UGA game did is just show what a great offensive team can do to our defense, that is all it did. Think about it, if we didn't have a great offense this year, how bad would it really be.
The positive take away from the UGA game is that our offense is seriously legit and will continue to win games for us, the really bad news is this. If our defense does not figure it out and figure it out fast there is no way in hell we will be playing for an SEC Championship in December. The bigger question is, is it youth and inexperience on defense that is killing us "that is what I tend to believe" or is it coaching "can't believe that one" and talent?
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 11:42 am
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:43 am to LSUButt
quote:
I have no idea how you can say "As good as Ego and Freak have been.."
Well I didn't say they were playing like All Americans, but seeing as how the two of them are on the field virtually every snap, I'm going to go ahead and say they are pretty far down the list of things wrong with our D. I think saying they have been "good" is pretty fair since they have zero backup and the LBs aren't commanding any attention either. I think you're wrong when you say "he's getting single teamed". He is facing double way more often than not.
I'm shocked we don't have any players behind them to even give us a rotation. Thomas has been hurt but didn't look like anything special even before then (I thought he was going to be solid based on what I heard during camp), and Lacouture is just clearly not ready. Guy is a non-factor at best when he is on the field.
I feel sorry for both of the starters because they are all we have.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:46 am to Dudebro2
quote:
anyone that looks at that game and can come away with "it is not that bad" is just fooling themselves.
quote:
In the past when we have faced great offenses "Oregon & A&M" just to name 2, our great defenses have shut down their offenses plain and simple
Saying the D is "not that bad" is not same as claiming that it is one of "our great defenses".
I'm not claiming that the D is great, but I disagree that they "suck arse".
Is there no middle ground? Is our coaching staff that different from the one that coached those "great" defenses against A&M and Oregon??? Can't they improve the D even a little?
And since you're agreeing with the guy about 300 in the first half, isn't it somewhat promising that we then held them to 190 in the second half? Didn't we make some improvement and adjustments?
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 11:49 am
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:52 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Look, no one is saying we have some great D that will shut down Oregon.
We have in the past, and that is kind of what we are used to.
quote:
But there is a difference between that type of defense and "playing like shite".
No our defense has played like shite "compared to what we are used to" what UGA did is just show what a good offense can do to us.
quote:
The defense absolutely has issues, but they made some plays here and there. Again, holding a great offense like UGA to 4/11 on 3rd downs is worthy of some praise and could be something to build on.
Very true, but wow talk about the only stat in the entire game on defense that you can hold on to. Talk about finding the needle in the haystack.
quote:
We need to figure out how to generate some pass rush, and LB play must get better to slow down the run games.
You are 1,000% correct, it all starts up front. Until the front 7 start playing better our defense will have issues the entire year.
quote:
We aren't going to be gang busters on D this year, that's pretty clear. But we don't have to be
You are correct, what the first 5 games has shown us is that our offense can definitely win games for us.
The problem is plain and simple, as EVERYONE knows "Defense win Championships" and with this defense we are going to win any championships. Personally I want to win at least the SEC Championship, but with the way our defense has played in the first 5 games, no way we get to Atlanta unless something changes real fast.
Like I said in a previous post the real question is, what is hurting us on defense? Youth and inexperience "that is what I think it is" or coaching "I don't think it is" and talent.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:55 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
isn't it somewhat promising that we then held them to 190 in the second half?
No because Gurley was hurt, if he wasn't hurt I don't know maybe 300yds would have been possible in the 2nd half.
quote:
Didn't we make some improvement and adjustments?
Yes we hurt Gurley, maybe we can do the same to Yeldon, McCarron and Manziel.
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 11:56 am
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:00 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Saying the D is "not that bad" is not same as claiming that it is one of "our great defenses".
That is what we are used to, I sure don't want to get into a situation where I am used to seeing what I am seeing now.
quote:
I'm not claiming that the D is great, but I disagree that they "suck arse".
Call it what you want, but when your front 7 is allowing almost 5 yds per carry in the first 5 games. Tiger Voodoo that is freaking really bad!!! I don't care if you are used to great defenses or not, that is really bad!!!
What I am saying is I want to see LSU win championships, and I got news for you no way in hell we win an SEC championship with this defense unless they drastically improve. It all starts upfront, if our front 7 can't start holding teams to under 3 yds per carry we are not going to make it to Atlanta in December for an SEC championship plain and simple.
Defense wins championships and I don't think that is disputable, just look at the last 7 BCS-NC's and look at their defenses!!!
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:04 pm to Dudebro2
You can check my past posts. I was telling everyone that the D had major issues and this game was going to get ugly.
But after rewatching this one, I just don't feel as bad about it as I did after Auburn.
Maybe it was low expectations, or maybe I just have that much respect for UGA, but I thought the D made Georgia work for everything they got after the first quarter.
Georgia's O is clearly better than our D. That shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone. But if the D hadn't gotten a couple of turnovers and held them to 3 FGs (including a 55 yarder) the game would have been a lot uglier.
I'm hopeful we can fix some things going forward since our O should keep the pressure off of them.
But after rewatching this one, I just don't feel as bad about it as I did after Auburn.
Maybe it was low expectations, or maybe I just have that much respect for UGA, but I thought the D made Georgia work for everything they got after the first quarter.
Georgia's O is clearly better than our D. That shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone. But if the D hadn't gotten a couple of turnovers and held them to 3 FGs (including a 55 yarder) the game would have been a lot uglier.
I'm hopeful we can fix some things going forward since our O should keep the pressure off of them.
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:11 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
As good as Ego and Freak have been, I do think we are clearly thin at DT. There just seems to be NOTHING behind them. And our ends just aren't good enough to pressure a great OL and QB like UGA's with just the front four, which is what we tried to do all game. We are going to have to get creative to generate pressure.
What was crazy to me was our one turnover we rushed 3 guys, with freak basically dropping back so we only rushed 2, yet we got the int.
The guys needed to get their hands up more, murrary isnt a tall qb, he had another one he threw rt into the face of ego.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:26 pm to Housplants
quote:
Loston is projected as a high draft pick, but he has not ball awareness whatsoever. He is a great hitter, but his type aggression is being removed from the game with the targeting rules. He does not cover well, and he never plays the ball, and now he can't even punish receivers the way he used to without risk of being tossed.
This IS a good rule. If Loston is so good, he needs to be aggressive with his shoulder and not his head. I've always hated the "hit hard" rather than the tackle. Too often, the "hit hard" misses, or the runner recovers for more yards. (Disclaimer: I advocate banning hard helmets).
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:28 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
But what I really noticed on the rewatch, that I didn't see at all live, was that I really think both defenses actually played pretty well against two of the best offenses in the country. (DISCLAIMER: I was one of the biggest critics of the D last week after Auburn)
You completely lost me here. LSU's defense wasn't simply being beat by a great offense. They were horrible, out of position and 3 of 5 TD passes were on complete blown coverages, not great offensive play. Players were tentative and played like they had no direction.
UGA's defense was clearly outmanned in the passing game, but our OL helped them by playing soft.
Both are great teams, but to claim they were good defenses shows a lack of understanding of the game.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:33 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Our D is not up to speed. I think the talent is off just a bit combined with youth - not a good combo against a good offense. It will cost us another game or 2
Posted on 9/30/13 at 12:33 pm to tirebiter
Clemson got 2 sacks and 5 hurries on Murray. we had 0 and 0. The muff punt was the difference in the game and that's it. We scored 41 on the road, in the SEC, that should win the game every time.
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