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Started By
Message
Clock and Helmet issue at the end of the first half
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:35 am
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:35 am
Ok, here it is:
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout. Also, if the ref determines that his helmet was pulled off, none of this applies - that is to stop the other team from just pulling off guys' helmets all the time and making them go out for a play. If a player's helmet comes off and he doesn't go out of the game, the team is charged a timeout (unless the clock stops anyway). And if the team doesn't have a timeout, there is a 10-second runoff.
So, in the game the other night, the refs screwed up at first. Collins' helmet came off and he stayed in the next play. Since LSU did not have a timeout, they at first thought that the 10 second runoff was necessary. Then they huddled up and figured out that the play where his helmet came off was an incomplete pass - so the clocked stopped. So, even though he lost his helmet, he could play the next play without a timeout being taken. So they made the right call - just a bit late.
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was.
Anyway, the issue was that the refs realized the clock had stopped anyway so no 10 second runoff was necessary. So they did the right thing and got the teams back out there and played the next play.
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout. Also, if the ref determines that his helmet was pulled off, none of this applies - that is to stop the other team from just pulling off guys' helmets all the time and making them go out for a play. If a player's helmet comes off and he doesn't go out of the game, the team is charged a timeout (unless the clock stops anyway). And if the team doesn't have a timeout, there is a 10-second runoff.
So, in the game the other night, the refs screwed up at first. Collins' helmet came off and he stayed in the next play. Since LSU did not have a timeout, they at first thought that the 10 second runoff was necessary. Then they huddled up and figured out that the play where his helmet came off was an incomplete pass - so the clocked stopped. So, even though he lost his helmet, he could play the next play without a timeout being taken. So they made the right call - just a bit late.
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was.
Anyway, the issue was that the refs realized the clock had stopped anyway so no 10 second runoff was necessary. So they did the right thing and got the teams back out there and played the next play.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:42 am to Buda
quote:
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was
So you are saying that Les was confused.
Water is wet.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:54 am to Choupique19
Think we all understand the rule now. Thank you so much. The 5 explanations during the game didn't help me grasp the concept. ?? You're such a visionary.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:02 am to Choupique19
That cheap shot at Miles isn't necessary. It's a non-descript rule that hardly ever comes into play. It can easily be misinterpreted by coaches and, evidently, by officials.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:04 am to Buda
Should have been "illegal hand to the face" on the defense anyway...
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:07 am to TFS4E
If this topic is gonna continue to result in new threads all week, let's take it a step further. For those at the game, what was the personal foul on TCU all about? I heard Patterson say after the game regarding the play that he was fine with the ruling, but was more concerned about his guy getting into it with a couple of our guys. What happened, and who was involved?
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:11 am to TFS4E
Not only that, but there was so much holding going on against the LSU D-line, I thought we were playing Bama on the road. How many holding calls were there? 1? It was ridiculous.
If not for being held the whole game, Jordan Allen would have had 4 or more sacks.
If not for being held the whole game, Jordan Allen would have had 4 or more sacks.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:17 am to mtntiger
What a turrible turrible rule.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:18 am to Choupique19
quote:
So you are saying that Les was confused.
Water is wet.
Patterson said after the game he was told there was a 20 second run-off. He must be a mildly retarded goofball too...
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:19 am to Buda
quote:
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout.
no that doesnt sound right. he has to come out regardless i think. the only way he can stay in is if they take a timeout.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:22 am to bbap
quote:
the only way he can stay in is if they take a timeout.
or if the removal was due to a foul committed by an opposing player...i.e. face mask. Collins wasn't on the FG, which was the next play, IIRC.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:26 am to Buda
If you go back and watch, Collins helmet was taken off by the defender. So Les was correct with his half time statement.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:38 am to Fishhead
The personal foul was against a TCU player that had stayed on the field. He got into a shoving/shouting match with a few LSU players and then said something in front of the referee. The referee immediately through a flag. I was at the game and it happened near my side of the field and seats, but I obviously couldn't hear what was said. The referee clearly announced the dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against the TCU player and if you watch the replay, you can see the TCU player arguing his case after the penalty was called.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:39 am to Buda
The better question is this, they called a unsportsmanlike penalty on TCU, assessed them half the distance from the goal, but they said, replay 4th down, shouldn't that have been an automatic 1st down?
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:00 pm to IMATIGERFAN
quote:
The better question is this, they called a unsportsmanlike penalty on TCU, assessed them half the distance from the goal, but they said, replay 4th down, shouldn't that have been an automatic 1st down?
That's the same question I had.... I was watching on tv and they never mentioned why it was not a 1st down.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:11 pm to Buda
I watched the replay on Sunday. What appeared to happen was TCU's #91 got his hand onto the bottom bar of Collins' facemask while rushing and pushed his helmet off. Should have been an illegal hands to the face call IMO. Seemed like the refs missed a lot of calls.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:14 pm to Buda
I actually do appreciate that explanation. Maybe it was just because I was pretty hammered in Cowboy Stadium on Saturday night...but I had no idea what the hell was going on at the time when TCU ran off of the field.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:14 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
it was a first down according to the drive chart, official didn't call it correctly. He also said "replay" 4th down and it was never 4th down to begin with...
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:21 pm to Choupique19
quote:
So you are saying that Les was confused. Water is wet.
Les asked them to review the play to see how the hat came off...he was right, we got three points, we won the game.
Water IS wet.
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