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re: Kornheiser: Nadal has removed Federer from the discussion of G.O.A.T
Posted on 6/11/13 at 4:15 pm to bobbyray21
Posted on 6/11/13 at 4:15 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
I'm gonna say this about Nadal. Nadal could be the greatest of all time if in the next three years he beats Djokovic on every surface. But what he established is that Roger Federer is not the greatest of all time.
So, let's say Nadal never wins another major except the French. Who does Kornheiser think is the best in that scenario? Sampras? The guy who never won anything of note on clay?
Nadal clearly has Federer's number. But I can't discount the fact that Federer does better against the rest of the field than Nadal. Federer had a streak of 23 semis and an active streak of 36 quarter final appearances at grand slams. Nadal's longest streaks are 5 semis and 11 quarter finals. So, while Nadal regularly beats Roger's arse, he's also way more likely to lose to the Lukas Rosals of the world. I have to give consistent dominance weight in this argument.
In addition, while Nadal's head to head against everyone is fantastic, so much of it is attained from playing so frequently on clay. He's 20-10 against Federer but only 7-8 off clay. He's 20-15 against Djokovic 7-12 off clay. So against his chief rivals he's 26-5 on clay and 14-20 on other surfaces. If he starts to meet more Djokovic more frequently on hard courts, the h-2-h is going to tilt strongly in Djokovic's favor. Will that remove Nadal from discussion of G.O.A.T?
Posted on 6/11/13 at 4:18 pm to ChiSaint
quote:
But I can't discount the fact that Federer does better against the rest of the field than Nadal.
Does he?
Nadal GS win/loss: 88.17%
Fed GS win/loss: 86.90%
Posted on 6/11/13 at 4:22 pm to ChiSaint
quote:
Federer had a streak of 23 semis and an active streak of 36 quarter final appearances at grand slams. Nadal's longest streaks are 5 semis and 11 quarter finals. So, while Nadal regularly beats Roger's arse, he's also way more likely to lose to the Lukas Rosals of the world. I have to give consistent dominance weight in this argument.
It can't be understated the pathetic and I mean PATHETIC competition Fed faced during that time.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 4:24 pm to ChiSaint
quote:
In addition, while Nadal's head to head against everyone is fantastic, so much of it is attained from playing so frequently on clay. He's 20-10 against Federer but only 7-8 off clay. He's 20-15 against Djokovic 7-12 off clay. So against his chief rivals he's 26-5 on clay and 14-20 on other surfaces. If he starts to meet more Djokovic more frequently on hard courts, the h-2-h is going to tilt strongly in Djokovic's favor. Will that remove Nadal from discussion of G.O.A.T?
You can't take Rafa's dominance on clay and turn it into an argument against him. We're not talking about Sergei Brugeira here. Rafa is elite on every surface. The fact that he is historically untouchable on clay adds to his resume; it doesn't detract.
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