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re: bonethug's First Saints Talk Mock Draft 1.0.2, now with Paprika
Posted on 4/20/13 at 9:49 pm to bonethug0108
Posted on 4/20/13 at 9:49 pm to bonethug0108
with the WRs it is still the #3 WR you're talking about? It may be a 7 over the #3 but in the big picture a #3 WR upgrade isn't a 7 upgrade to the position. Comparatively Ryan Nassib at #15 would be a 10+ upgrade... over the #2 QB. But that doesn't translate to a 10+ at the position. I don't see any WR that would come in day one and be a #1 WR. Maybe the top 5 would be a #2. I dunno if I could call that a giant upgrade.
Need? Impact? The bigger the need the bigger the impact can be. How about this line of thinking...
Which is the bigger upgrade?
Reaching for a LT at #15 (Fragel, Armsread, etc) or adding a proven 34OLB that has had 28 sacks in the past two years over Butler, Wilson, or Galette (24 sacks in 123 NFL games). My take is I hope for one of those three to get 10 sacks. with Jones I'd expect 10 sacks.
Lane Johnson is nice. But methinks ya gotta get before SD at #10 if ya want him. Is he worth losing your 3rd &5th Rder trading up to #10? I think a 3rd Rd Armstead, Fragel, Faulk, etc could compete for starting reps right up with Smith & Brown. The draft picks to trade that would be lost are too vital- this year maybe more than most.
Again, NT & OLB are THE keys to a succesful 3-4. Bigger upgrade a better #2 or 3 WR that would have to be on fire to get 60+ catches or a NT (Lotulelei) that has Ngata type game changing potential?
I agree to disagree. A lot seems to come down to how much faith you have in what is there at NT and OLB. My basis is more on history and past experience. You are much more confident in what they might do. The second factor for me is how vital the NT and OLB play is in the 3-4. Defensive improvement is predicated on NT & OLB success. In a 4-3 ya gotta have some DE pass rush and a solid MLB. That is where you prioritize your resources. Until we get we have proven 3-4 NT & OLB production I keep infusing talent there.
Need? Impact? The bigger the need the bigger the impact can be. How about this line of thinking...
Which is the bigger upgrade?
Reaching for a LT at #15 (Fragel, Armsread, etc) or adding a proven 34OLB that has had 28 sacks in the past two years over Butler, Wilson, or Galette (24 sacks in 123 NFL games). My take is I hope for one of those three to get 10 sacks. with Jones I'd expect 10 sacks.
Lane Johnson is nice. But methinks ya gotta get before SD at #10 if ya want him. Is he worth losing your 3rd &5th Rder trading up to #10? I think a 3rd Rd Armstead, Fragel, Faulk, etc could compete for starting reps right up with Smith & Brown. The draft picks to trade that would be lost are too vital- this year maybe more than most.
Again, NT & OLB are THE keys to a succesful 3-4. Bigger upgrade a better #2 or 3 WR that would have to be on fire to get 60+ catches or a NT (Lotulelei) that has Ngata type game changing potential?
I agree to disagree. A lot seems to come down to how much faith you have in what is there at NT and OLB. My basis is more on history and past experience. You are much more confident in what they might do. The second factor for me is how vital the NT and OLB play is in the 3-4. Defensive improvement is predicated on NT & OLB success. In a 4-3 ya gotta have some DE pass rush and a solid MLB. That is where you prioritize your resources. Until we get we have proven 3-4 NT & OLB production I keep infusing talent there.
This post was edited on 4/20/13 at 10:03 pm
1
Posted on 4/20/13 at 10:32 pm to blueslover
Again I'm not saying anything about who we get at 15. I'm talking straight number one player(whoever you think it to be) at any position in this draft and they turn out to be what you expect.
And this is not taking into account injuries so backup QB/K/P/FB are all non factors in this.
On WR again, you need 3 deep. Moore is really a slot guy(who can play outside, but the most damage is done in the slot) and any one of the top WRs in this draft outside of Austin will immediately have more impact on the outside than Morgan or Toon if they pan out(which was one of my stipulations, assuming these guys pan out). The impact will be felt, imo.
Again, I don't think the NTs are that much better than Bunkley or Hicks. I'm not as high on them as the media is and am much higher on Bunkley and Hicks than most people here. Yes the top 2 or 3 would be an upgrade, but only slightly imo.
Also, NT is not as vital in Ryan's 3-4 as it is in a 2-gap scheme. They aren't much more important than the ends are. The ILBs actually have a bigger role in Ryan's scheme and I feel comfortable in what we have there. They will read and fill the secondary gaps on runs and have under coverage responsibilities on pass plays. OLBs play about the same role in Ryan's scheme as a 2-gap for setting the edge and rushing with some cover responsibilities.
Also, FS in Ryan's scheme is pretty important. He's being asked to be the last line of defense(very often single high) as the SS is more often than not in the box or close to it. I'd much rather an upgrade there over Jenkins and I think it'd have much more of an impact over yet another young, fast OLB who I see as slightly better than what we have at best.
And the Chargers are 11, not 10(though I may just be misreading your post as it could go either way). Titans are 10 and they can get a guard a 15 no problem so I'm sure they'd be willing to trade. Our 3rd and 5th with a swap of 1sts comes out to 1 point off of an even trade.
Yes know a lot of people here don't want that. Most here are wanting a trade back. It's not about what we want though. It's about what Payton wants and given his track record if Johnson is there at 10 that will be the move.
So for the most impact I'd go LT, FS, WR, and then CB if they aren't sold on PRob or White(same as WR, you need 3 deep).
Looking at next year, I'd add in DE and SS and definitely CB as Smith, Coleman, Greer, and Harper could all be gone.
That makes Safety even more important this year if they can play either position.
And this is not taking into account injuries so backup QB/K/P/FB are all non factors in this.
On WR again, you need 3 deep. Moore is really a slot guy(who can play outside, but the most damage is done in the slot) and any one of the top WRs in this draft outside of Austin will immediately have more impact on the outside than Morgan or Toon if they pan out(which was one of my stipulations, assuming these guys pan out). The impact will be felt, imo.
Again, I don't think the NTs are that much better than Bunkley or Hicks. I'm not as high on them as the media is and am much higher on Bunkley and Hicks than most people here. Yes the top 2 or 3 would be an upgrade, but only slightly imo.
Also, NT is not as vital in Ryan's 3-4 as it is in a 2-gap scheme. They aren't much more important than the ends are. The ILBs actually have a bigger role in Ryan's scheme and I feel comfortable in what we have there. They will read and fill the secondary gaps on runs and have under coverage responsibilities on pass plays. OLBs play about the same role in Ryan's scheme as a 2-gap for setting the edge and rushing with some cover responsibilities.
Also, FS in Ryan's scheme is pretty important. He's being asked to be the last line of defense(very often single high) as the SS is more often than not in the box or close to it. I'd much rather an upgrade there over Jenkins and I think it'd have much more of an impact over yet another young, fast OLB who I see as slightly better than what we have at best.
And the Chargers are 11, not 10(though I may just be misreading your post as it could go either way). Titans are 10 and they can get a guard a 15 no problem so I'm sure they'd be willing to trade. Our 3rd and 5th with a swap of 1sts comes out to 1 point off of an even trade.
Yes know a lot of people here don't want that. Most here are wanting a trade back. It's not about what we want though. It's about what Payton wants and given his track record if Johnson is there at 10 that will be the move.
So for the most impact I'd go LT, FS, WR, and then CB if they aren't sold on PRob or White(same as WR, you need 3 deep).
Looking at next year, I'd add in DE and SS and definitely CB as Smith, Coleman, Greer, and Harper could all be gone.
That makes Safety even more important this year if they can play either position.
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