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Started By
Message
re: Ok Hog fans...Why not Charlie Strong?
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:31 pm to GerryDiNardo
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:31 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
They had almost identical experience. Sly had never been a head coach anywhere and neither had Shula. Both had 3 years of coordinator experience in the NFL. I think it's a bad comparison because now, there are coaches who have built solid resume's in college as winners that happen to be black.
horseshite. There's was absolutely nothing about Mike Shula that made him more cut out to run that program than Croom, he just happened to be white. If Croom and Shula were both black, who do you hire?
quote:
Explain to me how I should take:
You need to reread my post
quote:
Do you feel like some "desperate" colleges are hiring black coaches thinking they'll get an advantage because the coaches are black?
Basically I'm just echoing the narrative of the BFCA. I guess you know more about the situation of black coaches in America today than people affiliated with them?
1
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:33 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Strong had no HC experience
I don't give a shite. Kiffin shouldn't have gotten the job with Oakland in the first place.
quote:
think what you're finding now is that big name teams are very hesitant to hire assistants. They would prefer coaches that have built a resume as a head coach (see Kirby Smart).
Jeremy Foley at Florida disagrees with you
You are defending UT when they discriminated against Strong a few years back and you're not even aware of it.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:39 pm to Rocket
quote:
You are defending UT when they discriminated against Strong a few years back and you're not even aware of it.
Discriminated? GTFO. They hired a former HC from the NFL who brought his hall of fame coaching father with him to coach the defense. That's why he got hired over a guy who had never been a head coach. If anything t was nepotism that got Kiffin the job in Tennessee, because it definitely got him the job in Oakland.
quote:
Jeremy Foley at Florida disagrees with you
Yes, an exception, but he definitely took a risk and before this season you would have agreed that it was not headed in the right direction.
This post was edited on 11/30/12 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:40 pm to Rocket
Rocket is it your mission to comb these boards and take a big dump in the middle of every thread that mentions a non-white coach?
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:44 pm to Rocket
quote:
horseshite. There's was absolutely nothing about Mike Shula that made him more cut out to run that program than Croom, he just happened to be white. If Croom and Shula were both black, who do you hire?
Um.. dude they have very similar career tracks. They were both up for the job and quite possibly race could have been the deciding factor. The fact of the matter is that job was far less desirable at that point in time than at any time in that program's history which is why they were looking at a QB coach and a RB coach from the NFL with no head coaching experience.
quote:
You need to reread my post
No I don't. I don't need to be made dumber by having to reread your drivel.
.. and with that I'm done. You can't fix stupid.
This post was edited on 11/30/12 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:47 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Discriminated? GTFO. They hired a former HC from the NFL who brought his hall of fame coaching father with him to coach the defense. That's why he got hired over a guy who had never been a head coach
You are defending UT discriminating on Strong whether you realize it or not.
Kiffin should have never been a head coach in the first place in the NFL but you don't get that aspect of the situation
quote:
If anything t was nepotism that got Kiffin the job in Tennessee, because it definitely got him the job in Oakland.
If you don't think it helped that he was white then you are in denial more than even I realize
quote:
Yes, an exception,
Texas was going to name Muschamp head coach whenever Mack stepped down. Tennessee tried to hire Muschamp at one point. So did Auburn. Richt was an assistant coach at FSU when he was hired at UGA. Jimbo had never been hired as a head coach before FSU. Bob Stoops was the DC at UF when Oklahoma hired him.
The reality is that you preach about people hiring based on skill and merit and never on race and then you defend programs that discriminate on race. Strong was more cut out to run Tennessee than Kiffin and they passed on him.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:51 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Um.. dude they have very similar career tracks
Croom was older and had experience coaching in college
quote:
were both up for the job and quite possibly race could have been the deciding factor
Quite possibly? It was. If both had been black, Croom would have gotten the job
quote:
The fact of the matter is that job was far less desirable at that point in time than at any time in that program's history which is why they were looking at a QB coach and a RB coach from the NFL with no head coaching experience
You are again defending programs that discriminate against coaches based on race and you don't even realize it. I'm here to help you realize it
quote:
I don't need to be made dumber by having to reread your drivel. .. and with that I'm done. You can't fix stupid.
Translation: "Rocket, you win. I can't win with you. You are too formidable. You busted me on all my bullshite about politically correct society when I defended programs like Tennessee and Bama who have a history of dicriminating based on race. I should have thought twice before taking you on. I learned the hard way. Rocket, you are like the Stone Cold Steve Austin of the Tiger Rant"
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:55 pm to Rocket
quote:
You are defending UT discriminating on Strong whether you realize it or not.
Wrong. Their resume's at that point in time, whether merited or not, are not comparable.
quote:
Kiffin should have never been a head coach in the first place in the NFL but you don't get that aspect of the situation. If you don't think it helped that he was white then you are in denial more than even I realize
Tennessee hired him with the notion that he would bring in his legendary coaching father to coach the defense. This is irrefutable. I'm not going to justify anything that Al Davis did, because it was generally devoid of logic, but it doesn't change the fact that his resume was what it was.
quote:
Richt was an assistant coach at FSU when he was hired at UGA. Jimbo had never been hired as a head coach before FSU. Bob Stoops was the DC at UF when Oklahoma hired him.
Two were over 10 years ago. The coaching landscape has changed dramatically since then. The other was hired and named the coach in waiting.. that's a different scenario.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 1:57 pm to Rocket
quote:
You are again defending programs that discriminate against coaches based on race and you don't even realize it. I'm here to help you realize it
No you have nothing to stand on so you are attempting to make these ignorant comments to "one up" me.
quote:
Translation: "Rocket, you win. I can't win with you. You are too formidable. You busted me on all my bullshite about politically correct society when I defended programs like Tennessee and Bama who have a history of dicriminating based on race. I should have thought twice before taking you on. I learned the hard way. Rocket, you are like the Stone Cold Steve Austin of the Tiger Rant"
You have officially proven just how pathetic you really are... well done, sir.
This post was edited on 11/30/12 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:00 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Wrong. Their resume's at that point in time, whether merited or not, are not comparable.
Yes, they were.
quote:
Tennessee hired him with the notion that he would bring in his legendary coaching father to coach the defense. This is irrefutabl
Kiffin had a big plan, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he was more cut out to run that program than a guy who was 17 or so years older and was a coordinator at a program that had just won a BCS title
quote:
not going to justify anything that Al Davis did, because it was generally devoid of logic, but it doesn't change the fact that his resume was what it was.
You are again falling back on the resume bullshite to defend Tennessee discriminating based on race
You can afford to do that. It cost Strong a good job with big earning potential
quote:
Two were over 10 years ago. The coaching landscape has changed dramatically since then. The other was hired and named the coach in waiting.. that's a different scenario.
You are backtracking. If you are white, it's easier to get a big time program to reach out to you. That is a reality that black coaches deal with all the time.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:02 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
you have nothing to stand on so you are attempting to make these ignorant comments to "one up" me.
I'm busting every argument you make up with truth and sheer logic
You are defending programs that discriminate based on race while you preach political correctness
quote:
You have officially proven just how pathetic you really are... well done, sir.
I'm sweeping the floor with you. You are swimming up stream and you don't even know it
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:02 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
You have officially proven just how pathetic you really are... well done, sir.
you do realize you are arguing with a guy who said he thinks basically all republicans are racist, right? its impossible to argue logic with the illogical.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:03 pm to Rocket
I would like to think that in America in 2012 race would not be an issue. I know that it is in some places but Strong would be welcomed to Fayetteville I believe. (which is why this thread was started before being hijacked by the RACE CARD!)
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:11 pm to Rocket
quote:
Kiffin had a big plan, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he was more cut out to run that program than a guy who was 17 or so years older and was a coordinator at a program that had just won a BCS title
Okay. Tennessee didn't offer their job to Smart, a DC coming off a BCS championship, and instead offered a former NFL head coach in Gruden. This is a similar scenario. Former HC in the NFL holds a lot of weight. It's why Kiffin's resume was far superior to Strong's at that point in time.
Arguing that Tennessee hired Kiffin over Strong because of race just doesn't hold up. You would make a better case arguing that Auburn made a racial coaching decision by hiring Chizik over Turner Gill.
That being said, of course there are hurdles for black coaches. My point is that if a school refuses to hire the best candidate because he's black, they're doomed to fail.
Hiring a HC is such a big money decision that anyone making this decision with race as a criterion should be fired because they're not doing their school or it's fans justice.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:14 pm to ElDawgHawg
quote:
I would like to think that in America in 2012 race would not be an issue. I know that it is in some places but Strong would be welcomed to Fayetteville I believe. (which is why this thread was started before being hijacked by the RACE CARD!)
Yeah and I apologized for stoking the flames on the argument when I did. I was unaware of his history as an illogical poster, but I could deduce that much from his responses here. Thanks for the heads up and sorry again for derailing the thread.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:22 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
. Tennessee didn't offer their job to Smart, a DC coming off a BCS championship, and instead offered a former NFL head coach in Gruden. This is a similar scenario. Former HC in the NFL holds a lot of weight. It's why Kiffin's resume was far superior to Strong's at that point in time.
Far superior? Horsehit. He should have never gotten the Raider job to begin with. And any Kirby/Gruden scenario as comparision is ridiculous and I shouldn't have to explain why
quote:
Arguing that Tennessee hired Kiffin over Strong because of race just doesn't hold up
There's no way that a guy that is 17 or so years younger(with a year and a half NFL experience)is more cut out to run a major college program than a 50 year old(has been a d-coordinator at a program like Florida).
The race issue is very much at play. It's not my fault that you are reluctant to realize it after you preach colorblind hiring practices.
You are a fool if you don't think Kiffin being white helped him getting the job
quote:
You would make a better case arguing that Auburn made a racial coaching decision by hiring Chizik over Turner Gill
That case too is just as valid as Tennessee hiring Kiffin over Strong
quote:
That being said, of course there are hurdles for black coaches. My point is that if a school refuses to hire the best candidate because he's black, they're doomed to fail.
You preach political correctness yet defend programs who discriminate based on race
quote:
Hiring a HC is such a big money decision that anyone making this decision with race as a criterion should be fired because they're not doing their school or it's fans justice.
You're full of shite
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:25 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Yeah and I apologized for stoking the flames on the argument when I did. I was unaware of his history as an illogical poster, but I could deduce that much from his responses here. Thanks for the heads up and sorry again for derailing the thread.
You just don't live in reality. You are laying on the mat after I just gave you a big Hulk Hogan-style leg drop, the 3 count has already been rendered and you are pretending that the match is still on.
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:29 pm to Rocket
quote:
That case too is just as valid as Tennessee hiring Kiffin over Strong
Wrong and I shouldn't have to explain why
quote:
You preach political correctness yet defend programs who discriminate based on race
You are attempting to brand me as a "preacher political correctness", in an attempt to dismiss the argument's I'm making.
You basically said that any "non-desperate school" would not "have an interest in hiring a black coach". My argument has basically been that winning and not skin color should and is becoming the standard by which all coaches are judged.
Yet you continue to devolve the argument into me "defending programs who discriminate on race" or some other childish pissing match. I'm done because you clearly have a self-esteem issue that you must flex over the internet by derailing decent threads with drivel and stupidity. I honestly feel sorry for you.
This post was edited on 11/30/12 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:35 pm to GerryDiNardo
quote:
Wrong and I shouldn't have to explain why
You're wrong and I know why
quote:
are attempting to brand me as a "preacher political correctness", in an attempt to dismiss the argument's I'm making.
You have been wrong on just about every argument you've made.
Whether you realize it or not, you are defending programs who have a history of not hiring the best candidate because of their race. When you defend UT hiring Kiffin over Strong, that's what you're doing. The same goes for Bama hiring Shula over Croom
quote:
basically said that any "non-desperate school" would not "have an interest in hiring a black coach". My argument has basically been that winning and not skin color should and is becoming the standard by which all coaches are judged.
Your argument has no credibility because after you made that argument, you proceeded to defend programs who have a history of discriminating based on race.
Racial discrimination may be casual to you but it cost CHarlie Strong earning potential at a school with big resources. And he had paid more than his fair share of dues
quote:
Yet you continue to devolve the argument into me "defending programs who discriminate on race" or some other childish pissing match
Because you said programs shouldn't discriminate based on race, and then I pointed out instances when they did, you proceeded to defend them
quote:
done because you clearly have a self-esteem issue that you must flex over the internet. I honestly feel sorry for you.
I'm wearing the championship belt. I'm on the way to talk to Mean Gene Okerlund for a post match wrap up
Posted on 11/30/12 at 2:38 pm to ElDawgHawg
I believe Charlie Strong is a really good coach but I don't believe we need to take a chance with him at this time. We can't afford to screw up this hire and I'm just not completely sold on him. A couple more years and I would feel more confident with my assessment.
Jeff Long will hire whomever he wants and hopefully he understands how critical this hire is.
Jeff Long will hire whomever he wants and hopefully he understands how critical this hire is.
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