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re: Is Mainieri on the hot seat for next year?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 6:01 pm to Stevo
Posted on 6/18/12 at 6:01 pm to Stevo
quote:
catholictigerfan
I won't quote your entire post because of its length, but will quote relevant portions to address your argument.
Off the bat, I think you're comparing apples and oranges in terms basketball and baseball. Resources are different, historical factors are different, etc. I think it's a very convoluted argument you're trying to make in justifying how difficult it is to win the SEC baseball championship compared to an SEC basketball championship.
To entertain your argument though, a few thoughts:
quote:I'd argue we are way past the point, as a program, where we should care about SEC Championships. Once you've won a National Championship in any sport, are conference championships still the measure of success? In football and basketball, probably because they haven't had the consistent and extensive success that baseball has. But for baseball, it's hard for me to think of SEC Championships as indicative, alone, as indicative of successful seasons.
but pretty much Kentucky will win a SEC almost every single year. Noone at that school cares they should win a SEC title, all that matters for them is the national championship. That is it.
quote:
Baseball is different
quote:
Baseball
Kentucky (only based on this year)
Tennessee
Florida (number 2)
South Carolina (top school as of late)
Vanderbilt
Georgia
Alabama
Auburn
Arkansas
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State (scary at the end of the year)
Bold teams who can compete for a title with USCe year in year out. in bold
I think it's a bit premature to state that, based solely on their performance this year, Kentucky and Miss. St are primed to compete for SEC Championships year in, year out. Also, Arkansas hasn't won a championship since 2004 so I'm not sure how you can legitimately argue they can compete for a championship every year. If you remove those teams, you've basically highlighted the same number of teams that can or are expected to win the SEC Championship
quote:
so SEC baseball is a much tougher conference.
I think that's debatable.
quote:
at kentucky in basketball noone cares if you win a SEC title, its nice but won't keep your job.
at LSU in baseball if you win a SEC title, there is good chance they keep you around a couple more years.
If you are only winning SEC titles, though, I'm not sure, which is why I've said that not making Omaha once in 4 years is certainly a metric.
Imagine if Mainieri was just winning SEC titles every year but never made Omaha. Would people be happy with that? Sure, we'd have SEC titles, but no trips to Omaha. At the very least, I think it would indicate that his talent or coaching wasn't meeting expectations if he was good enough to win the SEC (which is inarguably the toughest conference) but not good enough to make Omaha (which normally requires you not even having to play another SEC team).
quote:
which AD are you giving this credit to?
Confused because I'm not giving any AD credit for anything. I was speaking to the AD's responsibility in maintaining the prestige of the program.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 6:07 pm
1
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:20 pm to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
Off the bat, I think you're comparing apples and oranges in terms basketball and baseball.
you brought it up so addressed it
quote:
I think it's a very convoluted argument you're trying to make in justifying how difficult it is to win the SEC baseball championship compared to an SEC basketball championship.
based on the talent from the top to the bottom eat is more difficult for us to win a SEC baseball championship, then it is for Kentucky to win a SEC basketball championship.
quote:
I'd argue we are way past the point, as a program, where we should care about SEC Championships. Once you've won a National Championship in any sport, are conference championships still the measure of success? In football and basketball, probably because they haven't had the consistent and extensive success that baseball has. But for baseball, it's hard for me to think of SEC Championships as indicative, alone, as indicative of successful seasons.
not but calling for a coaches head after winning the SEC championship is also beyond stupid.
quote:
I think it's a bit premature to state that, based solely on their performance this year, Kentucky and Miss. St are primed to compete for SEC Championships year in, year out. Also, Arkansas hasn't won a championship since 2004 so I'm not sure how you can legitimately argue they can compete for a championship every year. If you remove those teams, you've basically highlighted the same number of teams that can or are expected to win the SEC Championship
ok your correct, but I also don't see how you think that it is the case that SEC basketball is competitive as SEC baseball. SEC basketball is like the big east in football, we just aren't that good. Kentucky is great every year, and every once and a while a team challenges them.
in baseball 3 or 4 teams EVERY YEAR fight for the top seed into the last weekend, and all but 4 teams are in a possible race for the Title within a few weeks of the end of the season.
quote:
I think it's a bit premature to state that, based solely on their performance this year, Kentucky and Miss. St are primed to compete for SEC Championships year in, year out. Also, Arkansas hasn't won a championship since 2004 so I'm not sure how you can legitimately argue they can compete for a championship every year. If you remove those teams, you've basically highlighted the same number of teams that can or are expected to win the SEC Championship
you are correct overstatement a little bit but the teams I mentioned are alteast in the race every year. Plus Arkansas has been a pretty good team sense 2004 they have made to Omaha a couple of times and are always fighting for the top stop in the West.
Mississippi State has a storied history.
Kentucky looks like an amazing squad for the future
quote:
I think that's debatable.
not really SEC baseball is the toughest conference in the country in the baseball world. SEC basketball is like the Pac 10 in football back in the mid 2000s when only USC was good, or the Big 12 before the schools like OK state, T Tech, Baylor had great years.
SEC basketball just has no comparison to the likes of the ACC the Big East, the Big Ten in basketball. Kentucky will always be the best team in the SEC and will probably win it almost every year.
Baseball isn't the same. If you win back to back SEC regular season titles, you are one good team.
quote:
Imagine if Mainieri was just winning SEC titles every year but never made Omaha. Would people be happy with that? Sure, we'd have SEC titles, but no trips to Omaha. At the very least, I think it would indicate that his talent or coaching wasn't meeting expectations if he was good enough to win the SEC (which is inarguably the toughest conference) but not good enough to make Omaha (which normally requires you not even having to play another SEC team).
not going to happen baseball is way to difficult to win year after year after year. I agree that making omaha is the ultimate goal and if we go year after year after year of not making omaha many people wouldn't be happy. But you fail to realize how much better this team has gotten over the span of one year. There is absolutely
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