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Started By
Message
Explain this to a guy who knows barely anything about all of this
Posted on 9/9/11 at 2:45 am
Posted on 9/9/11 at 2:45 am
Texas A&M is leaving the Big 12.
Baylor (once ok with this) saw that Oklahoma wanted to bolt too. This scared them, so they threaten to sue A&M (Or the SEC?).
If A&M is already out of the Big 12, how does Baylor hold onto any legal claims over the Aggies? Or if they are suing the SEC, how is the SEC wrong for picking up an essentially independent program?
I apologize for my ignorance on the matter but this question has been bugging me.
Baylor (once ok with this) saw that Oklahoma wanted to bolt too. This scared them, so they threaten to sue A&M (Or the SEC?).
If A&M is already out of the Big 12, how does Baylor hold onto any legal claims over the Aggies? Or if they are suing the SEC, how is the SEC wrong for picking up an essentially independent program?
I apologize for my ignorance on the matter but this question has been bugging me.
3
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:23 am to CNB
In an ideal legal world, contracts are meant to be fulfilled. If A induces B to break a contract with C, C in theory has a claim against B for breaking the contract, as well as against A for inducing B to break the contract (also know as tortious interference with a contract).
The problem is that C (Baylor) has to prove that A's inducement (the SEC) caused actual damages to Baylor beyond what B (aTm) will already be required to pay for breaking the contract (the buyout).
If the Big 12 remains after aTm leaves (and the tv money stays the same), Baylor has no damages and therefore no claim.
If OU leaves as well and the Big 12 collapses, leaving Baylor with no home, Baylor certainly has damages, but can it prove causation? As in was it the SEC's inducement that caused the collapse of the Big 12 or was it the Pac 12's inducement of OU?
The SEC's best defense is acting exactly as they are, which is letting aTm approach them and insisting that aTm be free from any contractual hindrances before joining. This way the SEC can legitimately claim it induced no one to join and any new member it did accept was under no contractual obligation with a previous conference.
The SEC is doing the smart thing and saying "divorce your current spouse before I will agree to marry you."
The problem is that C (Baylor) has to prove that A's inducement (the SEC) caused actual damages to Baylor beyond what B (aTm) will already be required to pay for breaking the contract (the buyout).
If the Big 12 remains after aTm leaves (and the tv money stays the same), Baylor has no damages and therefore no claim.
If OU leaves as well and the Big 12 collapses, leaving Baylor with no home, Baylor certainly has damages, but can it prove causation? As in was it the SEC's inducement that caused the collapse of the Big 12 or was it the Pac 12's inducement of OU?
The SEC's best defense is acting exactly as they are, which is letting aTm approach them and insisting that aTm be free from any contractual hindrances before joining. This way the SEC can legitimately claim it induced no one to join and any new member it did accept was under no contractual obligation with a previous conference.
The SEC is doing the smart thing and saying "divorce your current spouse before I will agree to marry you."
This post was edited on 9/9/11 at 3:34 am
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:29 am to CNB
A&M thought its Big XII divorce had been granted and that it could--free and clear--start seriously dating the SEC.
The SEC voted to say "that sounds good A&M, but not yet", and wanted a letter from all of A&M's former conference girlfriends saying they wouldn't sue the SEC.
In 1995, the Big XII let some crazy bitches join/remain in the conference (none more than Baylor), and the gals are scared that they'll be thrown on the street with no more child support (Big XII $$$, BCS/AQ status, etc.).
After agreeing not to sue and having her conference commissioner send a letter to the SEC saying as much, the crazy woman (Baylor) now isn't signing anything.
So A&M is just chilling in limbo, paying $$$ to its divorce attorney and working on "Plan B."
The SEC voted to say "that sounds good A&M, but not yet", and wanted a letter from all of A&M's former conference girlfriends saying they wouldn't sue the SEC.
In 1995, the Big XII let some crazy bitches join/remain in the conference (none more than Baylor), and the gals are scared that they'll be thrown on the street with no more child support (Big XII $$$, BCS/AQ status, etc.).
After agreeing not to sue and having her conference commissioner send a letter to the SEC saying as much, the crazy woman (Baylor) now isn't signing anything.
So A&M is just chilling in limbo, paying $$$ to its divorce attorney and working on "Plan B."
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:29 am to Monticello
Awesome explanation. Thanks.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:32 am to Smoke Ring
So all in all it's pretty much the waiting game at the moment. See where the cards lie and go from there?
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:41 am to CNB
I don't think they can realistically sue the SEC and get anywhere but within the state of Texas, Baylor could politically tie this thing up in court for quite some time and possibly prevent A&M from leaving. Personally, I believe Texas has no intention of leaving the Big 12, wants to keep all the Texas schools together, add a couple or three more Texas schools, and eventually have more control than they already have.
Notice how they didn't cause a fuss about Nebraska and Colorado leaving and haven't really tried to add anybody. I'm thinking when one or two more larger schools leave, then they will get in gear and add whoever they are really wanting.
This is just one of many opinions and it's hard to say for sure what's really going on but there's very little doubt about who's orchestrating the mess.
Notice how they didn't cause a fuss about Nebraska and Colorado leaving and haven't really tried to add anybody. I'm thinking when one or two more larger schools leave, then they will get in gear and add whoever they are really wanting.
This is just one of many opinions and it's hard to say for sure what's really going on but there's very little doubt about who's orchestrating the mess.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 3:44 am to CNB
The Big XII is watching OU right now. If OU stays (it's talking hot and heavy with the PAC 12 right now, but seeking changes in the Big XII structure that could entice it to stay) if OU stays, the Big XII lives, A&M will be let loose to bring in new Big XII partners.
If OU goes, then there's no more Big XII. A&M would likely end up in the SEC if the Big XII blows up, regardless of a release from Baylor.
So, watch some Sooner Football right now, because OU holds the Big XII future in its hands.
Or just watch this:
If OU goes, then there's no more Big XII. A&M would likely end up in the SEC if the Big XII blows up, regardless of a release from Baylor.
So, watch some Sooner Football right now, because OU holds the Big XII future in its hands.
Or just watch this:
This post was edited on 9/9/11 at 4:04 am
Posted on 9/9/11 at 7:09 am to Smoke Ring
quote:
If OU goes, then there's no more Big XII
I used to feel that way but if the Big 10 won't let Texas keep the LHN, then the Big 12 will add joke schools like UofH, SMU, New Mexico and Memphis.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 7:29 am to Dr Drunkenstein
Baylor suing A&M has no teeth, even if it proceeds. i've heard A&M has sovereign immunity due to being a public institution.
the threat is against the SEC. even if it has no merit, legal proceedings mean nightmares to sec official, who will have to give access to business and personal communications.
the sec is playing it smart and being passive. clearly they dont need to lower themselves to treat baylor's bullying
on the other hand A&M is BOUND east to SEC membership. No other way about it. the A&M admin, boosters and fans ARE DETERMINED and ARE NOT WAVERING in their efforts to join the sec. a&m and big 12-2-1-x is no more. it's over.
the threat is against the SEC. even if it has no merit, legal proceedings mean nightmares to sec official, who will have to give access to business and personal communications.
the sec is playing it smart and being passive. clearly they dont need to lower themselves to treat baylor's bullying
on the other hand A&M is BOUND east to SEC membership. No other way about it. the A&M admin, boosters and fans ARE DETERMINED and ARE NOT WAVERING in their efforts to join the sec. a&m and big 12-2-1-x is no more. it's over.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 7:49 am to elpechis
quote:
on the other hand A&M is BOUND east to SEC membership. No other way about it. the A&M admin, boosters and fans ARE DETERMINED and ARE NOT WAVERING in their efforts to join the sec. a&m and big 12-2-1-x is no more. it's over.
Slive has said A&M isn't coming without the waiver being signed by Baylor. Baylor will not sign the waiver. I know you really, really, really want A&M in the SEC but if Slive doesn't change his stance, how is it going to happen?
Posted on 9/9/11 at 9:18 am to Dr Drunkenstein
independent until we clear all conditions for sec membership.
i hope texas joins a pac-x and we keep the t day game. time to let baylor sink where they belong.
i hope texas joins a pac-x and we keep the t day game. time to let baylor sink where they belong.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 9:39 am to elpechis
A&M brought this crap on themselves. They had the perfect opportunity to leave last year but decided to suck the Longhorns off one last time.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 10:53 am to BhamTigah
quote:
A&M brought this crap on themselves. They had the perfect opportunity to leave last year but decided to suck the Longhorns off one last time.
People underestimate both the pressure and how big of a sea change Texas A&M was facing.
The Texas legislature seethes with political intrigues and backroom deals in a way most other states would never understand. The Longhorns have far more political influence in Texas than TAMU has. Add in the Baylor lobbyists, and Aggie supporters in government often find themselves outnumbered.
And breaking away from Texas isn't an easy thing for the Aggies. Their whole identity has been tied up with Texas for as long as both schools have existed.
This is a huge adjustment for them. It's easy to look at things in hindsight and say they should have left last year. I personally think it was a no brainer to leave for the SEC, but I am not privy to all the backroom wheeling and dealing that was involved in that decision.
Let's all remember how disappointed the Aggie fans were. And give them credit for fighting the good fight. Although Texas' arrogance and greed would probably have caused Texas A&M to bolt anyways, the decision was made a lot easier for the Aggie administration because they knew how many of the Aggie fan base wanted to be in the SEC.
SECede worked!
This post was edited on 9/9/11 at 10:54 am
Posted on 9/9/11 at 4:37 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
Bham Tiger,
A&M wasn't flipping off the legislature as funding for two years was being appropriated. That's suicide, and conference affiliation is chump change compared to the $Billions that are appropriated.
It would be like wrecking your car to pick up a hundred dollar bill off of the highway. Everyone wants a $100 bill, but at what cost?
Same with starting conference realignment last year in a legislative session.
A&M wasn't flipping off the legislature as funding for two years was being appropriated. That's suicide, and conference affiliation is chump change compared to the $Billions that are appropriated.
It would be like wrecking your car to pick up a hundred dollar bill off of the highway. Everyone wants a $100 bill, but at what cost?
Same with starting conference realignment last year in a legislative session.
Posted on 9/9/11 at 5:53 pm to Smoke Ring
quote:
Or just watch this:
Now that is funny! A clip is worth a thousand words!
Posted on 9/10/11 at 8:56 am to Monticello
Why doesn't Nebraska and Colorado already leaving,and Baylor or anyone else in the Big 12, not having a problem with it, not set a precedent. It would seem that Baylor's problem would be with Nebraska and Colorado...they started the ball rolling.
This post was edited on 9/10/11 at 9:02 am
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