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I've been doing some research on Kragthorpe...

Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:10 pm
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:10 pm
after exchanging a few e-mails with some folks over the past week, and I have an admission to make: I have NO CLUE what Kragthrope is going to mean to our offense beyond conceptual ideas.

What I mean by "conceptual" is that I understand that Kragthrope means a return to what Jimbo found very successful here at LSU. Jimbo was a "multiple" OC, in that he liked to use multiple formations as an Offensive Coordinator. Out of those multiple formations, he ran the same basic plays. They repped them so much at practice, that his elite athletes and all that familiarity with execution produced hellacious results, over the long haul, and with several different cast of offensive playmaking characters.

(Crowton was the extreme definition of "multiple"; it proved detrimental to LSU's fortunes)

That's not to say we'll only see one or two formations. It's just that we will run more plays out of each of the formations that we do cut our playbook down to feature. Less exotic formations, more plays run out of the same formations, if that makes sense.

Kragthorpe interviews all the way back to his Tulsa days talks about putting the "best 11" on the field (sound familiar?), and then finding ways to put the ball in playmakers hands while confusing the defense in doing it.

He goes on to consistently mention that a defensive coordinator is constantly looking not just for formation tendencies or tells in order to call plays, but also at personnel groupings.

I take this to mean not only that we'll have more plays run out of fewer formations (more counters out of the same looks, etc), but we'll be flexible in personnel, as well. Hopefully, this will mean that if we go 4 wide receivers and use Wright & Boone, we aren't just gonna run the ball or throw a Hail Mary).

So, I see conceptual changes and tweaks of our offense, but I have absolutely no idea about what to expect from Kragthorpe in the pass-game.

Has anyone been doing any research on this that they want to share?
This post was edited on 7/10/11 at 6:11 pm
Posted by BigEdLSU
All around the south
Member since Sep 2010
20331 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:14 pm to
Kragthorpe should be wayyyyy more aggresive than what we have become accustomed to.

He is a fan of the deep ball.
Posted by TheDoc
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:18 pm to
Only complaint is lsu doesn't have to be confusing. Just execute.
Posted by MightierThePenIs
Member since Jan 2008
1510 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:19 pm to
quote:

He goes on to consistently mention that a defensive coordinator is constantly looking not just for formation tendencies or tells in order to call plays, but also at personnel groupings.


Crowton took advantage of this fact to pwn Tennessee.

We may never see such slick move again.
Posted by HeadChange
Abort gay babies
Member since May 2009
43911 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:19 pm to
Does Krags have a jailbreak screen type play in his playbook? I miss those.
Posted by deuce985
Member since Feb 2008
27660 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:23 pm to
Unless JJ can shorten his release, you won't be seeing those. Otherwise you're going to see some ugly plays being run under that.
Posted by 756
Member since Sep 2004
15727 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:26 pm to
yep and shorten his release, work through progressions quicker, and make his decisions faster

does not matter who OC is if JJ does not improve the above.
Posted by 7thWardTiger
Richmond, Texas
Member since Nov 2009
24670 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:33 pm to
I will admit that idk what he uses conceptually. I did notice in the spring he used basic route combinations like picks and smash routes.

I will offer you this. If you assist me in finding game film from his time at Tulsa and Louisville, i will assist you in breaking that film down.
Posted by covlatiger
Member since Feb 2006
2407 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

more plays run out of fewer formations


That would be great! Minimize the last minute chinese fire drills we've been seeing. Would also seem to imply that the starters stay on the field more - to stop plays from being associated with specific player groupings.
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

That would be great! Minimize the last minute chinese fire drills we've been seeing. Would also seem to imply that the starters stay on the field more - to stop plays from being associated with specific player groupings.


I don't see that being necessarily the case.

You can run from a basic set of multiple formations, and then run different plays out of each of those multiple formations. You can plug players in so that regardless of whose in on what particular play, they know their responsibility.

We have too many mouths to feed on offense not to shuffle in and out personnel. Too much talent out there.

I do know that Kragthorpe is a fan of the one-back offense, and even dabbled with keeping Petrino's Power/Spread Hybrid in place in Louisville, but without much success.

Having said that, we'll see two backs with JJ in the Gun, we'll see 3 WR sets, jumbo formations, and more than likely some Trips stuff, too.

Just confused as to what we're going to actually run.

The research I've done on Kragthrope shows me that Charlie Stubbs was with him in Tulsa & the first year at Louisville. But, he got axed after year 1, & Jeff Brohm got two years to try (and fail). He got axed, and then Kragthorpe tried to do it himself (and failed) his last year there.

So, I don't necessarily think his time at Tulsa-or Louisville-was due to the Offensive Coordinator. I'm still looking around for an actual MO for this guy, though.
Posted by Chuck U Farley
The 318
Member since Oct 2007
8994 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 8:34 pm to
I can't wait to break down the offense after the first game. I would also love for him to appear on the Les Miles show before Oregon and give us an idea of what we should expect to see.
Posted by dreaux
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2006
40881 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 8:42 pm to
you can probably dig up some stuff on texas aTm as well.

he did very well there as coordinator.
Posted by dreaux
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2006
40881 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 8:50 pm to
not good enough. Research more, come back and tell us everything you find out.

failure will not be tolerated
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 9:13 pm to
13 years ago is stretching it a tad bit.

Besides, Texas A&M was not very good on offense back then.
Posted by dreaux
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2006
40881 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 9:30 pm to
Posted by MurfreesboroTiger
The Boro
Member since Jul 2011
29 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 9:33 pm to
Ware up the middle
Ford to the outside
Sheperd around the end
Deep ball to Randle
Peterson across the middle


^^^^^70% of are plays this year^^^^^
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 9:39 pm to
Everything Krags does is "concept" based.

Decent little piece on that: LINK

So yeah, I agree with you. What we're going to see are less formations, more play variations out of those formations.
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 9:43 pm to
I've read that article 3-4 times now. I don't see how he bridges the concept theme versus a "zone stretch" with low/med/high choices.

He takes a big leap, and he doesn't show any tape, which is what's really annoying me. I don't know how much you can take away from what he did at Louisville after giving Brohm 2 years as the OC and them transitioning away from-and then back towards-the Power/Spread Hybrid stuff.

The Tulsa stuff is what interests me. That, and the staples that translated between the two. He unfortunately wasn't high enough on the radar for folks to really stop & pay attention to him.

I can tell you that until the last two years, he was averaging more than 30ppg, and aside from his first year at Tulsa, all of his teams averaged over 200ypg/passing.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 10:38 pm to
quote:

I don't know how much you can take away from what he did at Louisville after giving Brohm 2 years as the OC and them transitioning away from-and then back towards-the Power/Spread Hybrid stuff.



I don't think much at all, honestly.

For one, he tried to carry over Petrino's system for consistency, and it failed.

For another thing, he lost a ton of talent (through weeding out bad apples), so that obviously hurt.

quote:

The Tulsa stuff is what interests me. That, and the staples that translated between the two. He unfortunately wasn't high enough on the radar for folks to really stop & pay attention to him.

I can tell you that until the last two years, he was averaging more than 30ppg, and aside from his first year at Tulsa, all of his teams averaged over 200ypg/passing.


He definitely oversaw some very successful offenses at Tulsa and while his offenses at A&M weren't groundbreaking or dominant, they were markedly improved from the time of his arrival (most A&M fans are very high on him).

I'd expect to see a mixture of one back and i-form, with an emphasis on play action and deep passing.

For better or worse, we're still going to wrinkle in some of that zone stretch/read/midline veer stuff we did last year with JJ (which was actually decently successful when we got him downhill).

I'm still learning about it all, so I'm not exactly sure what concepts he'll bring over, but Smart Football has written a good bit on him in the past. There's a few pieces that he talks about Krags, his overall perspective on O and mostly his (failed) tenure at Louisville.
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 7/10/11 at 10:46 pm to
quote:

I'd expect to see a mixture of one back and i-form, with an emphasis on play action and deep passing.

For better or worse, we're still going to wrinkle in some of that zone stretch/read/midline veer stuff we did last year with JJ (which was actually decently successful when we got him downhill).


The 1 back stuff is what his old OC (Stubbs) at Tulsa & Louisville ran a lot of. It's also what he learned at the footsteps of those pro-guys like Henning & Gilbride.

We'll see how it goes. I just wish he had some more tape & more actual history that was "his" own, so to speak.
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