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The case for keeping Gary Crowton...

Posted on 12/2/09 at 9:55 pm
Posted by Sonny G
Houston, TX
Member since May 2009
508 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 9:55 pm
Football is about winning conference and national championships. There are some programs that as a practical possibility are not capable of attracting, recruiting, and signing the talent it takes to win a National Championship.

Obviously, LSU is not one of these programs and has won 3 National Championships in the last 52 years. Therefore, thinking and speaking rationally, that is the measure of success.

Well how have National Championships been won over the last 25 years?

Lets take a look and how much experience their QB had?

1) 2009 UF - Tebow - Jr. - practiced in the spring with team before true Frosh. yr. Dec. grad.

2) 2008 LSU - Flynn - Sr. - redshirt

3) 2007 UF - Leak - Sr.

4) 2006 - UTX - Young - Jr. - redshirt

5) 2005 - USC - Linart - Jr. - redshirt

6) 2004 - LSU - Mauk - Jr. - redshirt

7) 2003 - OSU - Krenzel - Jr. - redshirt

8) 2002 - Miami - Dorsey - Sr.

9) 2001 - OU - Heupel - Sr.

10) 2000 - FSU - Weinke - Jr.

11) 1999 - Tenn. - Martin - Jr.

12) 1998 - NE - Frost - Sr.
- MI - Greise - Sr. - redshirt

13) 1997 - UF - Wuerfell - Sr.

14) 1996 - NE - Frazier - Sr.

15) 1995 - NE - Frazier - Jr.

16) 1994 - FSU - Ward - Sr.

17) 1993 - AL - Barker - Soph. - Redshirt

18) 1992 - UWA - Hobert - Jr.
- Miami - Torretta - Sr.

19) 1991 - CO - Hagan - Jr.

20) 1990 - Miami - Erickson - Jr.

21) 1989 - ND - Rice - Soph. - Redshirt

22) 1988 - Miami - Walsh - Soph. - Redshirt

23) 1987 - Penn St. - Shaffer - Jr.

24) 1986 - OU - Holieway - True Freshman - 1st & only one in history. Option QB

25) 1985 - BYU - Bosco - Jr.

Therefore, only one true Frosh has ever won a Nat. Title - and OU won the NC with a wish-bone option scheme that didn't call for the QB to pass that much. In fact, Jamelle Holieway threw 22 touchdowns and 15 interceptions (horrible ratio) and his completion ratio was 45.5% which is terrible. Clearly OU won running the football behind an awsome Oline, having a strong defense and didn't go undefeated with an 11-1 record the year they won the NC.

And, since only one true freshman QB has done it in over 100 years, a team's chances of winning the NC are over 10,000 to one in any given year.

No true sophomores have lead their team to a NC to my knowledge and if they have, please let me know.

However, there have been 3 redshirt sophomores that have done this feat. But, clearly there is a trend in the above data. And, that is that 84% of teams that won the National Championship have had quarterbacks that had a Junior or Senior at the offensive helm of their team. Furthermore, 96% had QBs that had at least two years in the offensive system BEFORE the year they won the NC.

Therefore, with LSU facing FL with a Senior QB that has already won one and played in two NCs and Bama which had a redshirt Jr playing QB, LSU was at a historical disadvantage compared to both programs this year considering JJ has less than two years (only one year's experience) in LSU's offensive system. Both teams are ranked in the top 3. Thus, the chances of LSU beating either team with a true sophomore QB is horrendously bad. Without beating one of these, LSU had no chance of making the SEC Championship game. And, since Bama went undefeated, LSU had no chance of making it the SEC Championship game.

LSU's only other loss was to Ole Miss who is QBed by a Jevan Snead, another redshirt junior.
Furthermore, the game was blown when the Head Coach, Les Miles called for a spike of the football. Any experienced Jr. or Sr. QB would have run a play and overruled the head coach rather than spike the football with one second left on the clock.

How Gary Crowton can be blamed for these problems is beyond me...

Additionally, whether LSU loses to Ole Miss or not, the best bowl LSU could go to was the Capital One Bowl, which is where the Tigers will end up.

For those that say Crowton hasn't developed a QB, I say this, he did and that was Ryan Perriloux. LSU's program was bound for failure in the context of National and SEC championships when Perriloux was kicked off them team. If you have watched football for the years that I have, you will know that both Miles and Crowton invested valuable time developing RP that can't be recovered in one or two years. LSU was in a rebuilding mode with the loss of RP and there are no two ways about it.

Furthermore, LSU had 100% attrition in the offensive line position in the recruiting year of 2006, losing 6 OLmen. 50% of the OL recruits (two of four) were lost in the class of 2007 and two of the DL recruited that year had to be converted to OLmen due to the 80% attrition at the OL position during those two years. Transfers, injuries, and disciplinary actions have taken their toll on the offensive line and there is no one that can predict this or plan for this no matter if you are making $1.00 or $4 Million a year.

Next, although LSU's offense ranked as one of the worst in the country during 2009 at #108, this was following a year when LSU had a QB that threw seven picks that were returned for scores and 16 for the season. If Gary Crowton didn't try to limit interceptions, he would have been fired for sure at the end of 2009. So you can't have it both ways. Crowton developed JJ enough not to not throw pick sixes and only 6 interceptions on the year. Anyone that knows football can see that if you are going to minimize turnovers by the QB, you are going to have to run a more conservative offense. Running a more conservative offense means that it will cut your offense's ranking vs. the other 120 teams. In all fairness, you can't rail against an offensive coordinator for going conservative with a 1st year starting, true sophomore QB after a year when everyone railed against him because of turnovers (interceptions) when he had a first year starter redshirt freshman QB. This is the very definition of illogical.

And, Gary Crowton was the offensive coordinator in 2007 when LSU averaged more points and more yards per game than any other year in LSU history. Add to that the fact that LSU has only beaten Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee in the same year one time and that year was 2007.

If Senior WR Doucet would have lined up as he was taught vs. Arkansas, LSU would have won that game. And, if Senior QB Flynn doesn't under throw Lafell at Kentucky, LSU would have won the game. It is not Gary Crowton's or Les Miles fault that LSU didn't end up undefeated. Doucet and Flynn were both taught to not make those mistakes.

Lastly, LSU will lose their RB, WR, and OLine coaches this year. LSU needs some continuity on offense next year if we expect to beat Alabama and win the SEC West and win in the Championship Game. If we replace the OC, the players will have to learn a whole new system. If you think JJ has struggled this year, you can forget an SEC or NC next year.

And, if anyone has a list of true sophomores that have won the SEC Championship, I would like to see it.





This post was edited on 12/3/09 at 12:07 am
Posted by LSUMafia
Member since May 2005
9862 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:08 pm to
It's a case of the Stupid.
Posted by StarkvilleTigerFan
Muncie, IN
Member since Jan 2005
3992 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:08 pm to
Well thought out-but you can't convince the diehard Crowton haters no matter what you do!
Posted by Veritas
Member since Feb 2005
10080 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:11 pm to
My only problem is that he has the keys to a Ferrari, but drives it like a Ford Focus.
Posted by LSUtigahs28
Member since Sep 2008
14561 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:14 pm to
So since the NC winning QB is a JR or SR Crowton can't get our offense into the top 100 with a So?
Posted by LSUMafia
Member since May 2005
9862 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:16 pm to
Isn't it funny how people keep thinking this is purely about winning a championship? Nobody is claiming that. We are claiming the fact that our defense ended the season ranked 108th in total offense.

Posted by PinevilleTiger
Pineville, LA
Member since Sep 2005
6352 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:16 pm to
Just amazes me that almost all LSU fans want Crowton gone and all the fans from other schools say we should keep him! I wonder why?
Posted by Sonny G
Houston, TX
Member since May 2009
508 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:23 pm to
quote:

So since the NC winning QB is a JR or SR Crowton can't get our offense into the top 100 with a So?


Yes 2009 should be viewed in a vacuum irrespective on all the picks Jarret Lee threw in 2008.

Don't twist my words or point to make me look ridiculous.

If you do, you are the typical illogical ranter that has a mentality of "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up".

Our offensive ranking did not keep us from a respectable 9-3 record. Sophomore QBs and weak offensive lines are going to affect offensive production and Gary Crowton can only control one of these variables. The OL coach, OLine performance and Oline recruiting attrition are conditions that the OC can do little about.

No wonder you don't consider these factors.
This post was edited on 12/2/09 at 10:28 pm
Posted by Reality Tiger
Member since Nov 2009
196 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:28 pm to


You nailed it dude.


The case for keeping Crowton is that if you want to blame this season on JJ, you have to consistent so why fire the coach.

But JJ didn't run that stupid weak side option 50 times and it wasn't JJ's responsibility to get RS untracked.

All that's on the The Hat and The Wizard.

Those dudes need to hit The Road.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
294685 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:29 pm to
Our anemic offense should have led to several more losses, had Moo U not whiffed at the goal line and fortune found our way. LSU isn't anywhere near as good as a 9-3 team should be. I have watched NCAA football for over 30 years and the LSU offense was as bad as I have ever seen a team with talent that should dominate lesser teams.

Don't dress this pig up. The offense was abysmal. Crowton/Miles kept trying to run the same failed offense 10 games into the season that didn't work in the first.
Posted by LSUMafia
Member since May 2005
9862 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:33 pm to
Helps when your opponents are lest talented and mediocre. If you think the SEC was strong this season, you're a fool.

The offense did amazing against UF (3 points), Bama (15 points), MSU (17 points ), LaTech (24 points ), Vandy (23 points).

The wins we got had nothing to do with Auburn getting only 10, ULL? 3. Tulane? 0. UGA? 13. Vandy? 7 + 2 by a safety on us, La Tech? 16.
So in 6 of our 9 wins, we held our opponents 16 points or less.

Hell in 2 losses we gave up only 13, 24, and 25. In the other 3 wins? We gave up 17 real points against MSU (9 more from a muffed punt and safety). 16 real points against UW (7 on a BS drive to just run out the clock and end the game).

So yes, since our worst defensive game was against Arkansas for 30 points, our offense was great.
Posted by NOSA
Member since Jan 2004
10172 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:36 pm to
(no message)
Posted by timmeister
Chandler, AZ
Member since Feb 2009
595 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:48 pm to
Here's the case:



And when he leaves, I hope his playbook is in it!
This post was edited on 12/2/09 at 10:49 pm
Posted by Sonny G
Houston, TX
Member since May 2009
508 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 10:51 pm to
quote:

But JJ didn't run that stupid weak side option 50 times and it wasn't JJ's responsibility to get RS untracked.


Oh don't think that I love Gary Crowton or that running to the weak side of the offense with the option. I don't like it either.

However, unlike most of the guys responding to this thread, I have to look at what Gary Crowton had to deal with last year and this year.

And, in the context of rebuilding the offense from a QB standpoint vs. SEC competition and in light of the fact that bringing in a new OC and system will doom LSU to a very slim chance of winning a NC with a Junior QB that will have to learn a whole new system, I'll take my chances with Crowton. Flynn was a redshirt Sr. during Crowton's first year. To me, that is the difference between JJ next year and 2007.

I would perfer a new OC next year as well, but you can forget winning the SEC next year with a new offensive scheme.
This post was edited on 12/2/09 at 11:13 pm
Posted by mrbayoublu
Acadiana
Member since Jan 2004
2938 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:02 pm to
So next year, when LSU gets 3 new offensive coaches and keeps GC, GC gets another pass because the coaches had to learn GC's system.
Posted by Bayou Sam
Istanbul
Member since Aug 2009
5921 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:05 pm to
quote:

but you can forget winning the SEC next year with a new offensive scheme.


This is what I'm afraid of -- good posts.
Posted by Sonny G
Houston, TX
Member since May 2009
508 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:09 pm to
quote:

So next year, when LSU gets 3 new offensive coaches and keeps GC, GC gets another pass because the coaches had to learn GC's system.


So this year you are an idiot and next year you will be too, because I said the players will have to learn a new system, specifically the QB...

Quit taking your dumbass pills and read before you insert your foot in your mouth.

Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
26661 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:13 pm to
LSU won the SEC in 2007 with a new OC and a new offensive scheme.
Posted by Sonny G
Houston, TX
Member since May 2009
508 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:16 pm to
quote:

Flynn was a redshirt Sr. during Crowton's first year. To me, that is the difference between JJ next year and 2007.


quote:

LSU won the SEC in 2007 with a new OC and a new offensive scheme.


I acknowledged that. It's a fact, but we know that a redshirt Sr. has a better chance of picking up and maximizing the offense of a new scheme than a true Jr. QB.

Posted by LSUMafia
Member since May 2005
9862 posts
Posted on 12/2/09 at 11:22 pm to
Ummm....Why do you ignore Crowton's history? He's done this same thing at every stop he's been this decade.

After his first year where he blends the previous offense with his and a JR/SR QB he's had success. Once he puts in his offense in years 2,3,and 4 there are two ways they fail:

1) No yards, anemic rhythm, and low points (see years 3 at LSU and BYU.

2) Lots of Yards, Decent points, tons of turnovers (see LSU 2008, BYU 2002 and 2004, and UO 2006).

Keep ignoring his history.
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