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Arguments and Contradictions

Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:26 pm
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:26 pm
Posting James 2:24 by itself isn’t an argument — it’s a proof-text.

James grounds that verse in Abraham offering Isaac.

But Abraham was declared righteous in Genesis 15 — decades before Isaac in Genesis 22. Paul explicitly makes that chronological point in Romans 4.

So unless James forgot Genesis, he isn’t describing how Abraham became justified before God. He’s describing how Abraham’s already-existing faith was demonstrated.

That’s why James says faith without works is dead — not nonexistent, but useless.

There’s no contradiction unless you assume James and Paul are answering the same question. They aren’t.

Paul addresses legalism.
James addresses empty profession.

If Scripture “contradicts itself,” the burden is on the reader to explain the timeline — not declare the Bible unreliable.

If quoting a single verse overturns the rest of Scripture, the problem isn’t the Bible — it’s the method.

EDIT: For those without context, this was a response to a whacked thread -- presumably because it had devolved into calling people names due to religious disagreement. I felt the conversation could still move forward without the baggage. I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing. Those who participated had the context from the other thread. Thanks.
This post was edited on 3/1/26 at 8:27 am
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195599 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:27 pm to
orange slices and sparkling wine
Posted by DustyDinkleman
Here
Member since Feb 2012
19720 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:27 pm to
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:27 pm to
2 Thessalonians 2:15 commands believers to "stand firm and hold to the traditions" passed on by the apostles, whether through spoken word or written letter.
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:29 pm to
2 Thessalonians 2:15 commands the Thessalonians to hold to apostolic teaching they personally received.

It does not say that every later church tradition is automatically apostolic.

The burden is demonstrating continuity — not assuming it.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:30 pm to
Nothing about the Protestant branch of Christianity is apostolic.
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:31 pm to
That’s a broad claim.

Do you mean belief in the Trinity isn’t apostolic?
The deity of Christ?
The bodily resurrection?
Justification by grace?

If Protestants affirm the doctrines defined in the early creeds, in what sense is “nothing” apostolic?
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195599 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:32 pm to
quote:

Nothing about the Protestant branch of Christianity is apostolic.
All of your assumptions about Protestant churches in the other thread were wrong

so why should we think that you know what you're talking about here
This post was edited on 2/28/26 at 10:34 pm
Posted by Stexas
SWLA
Member since May 2013
6925 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:32 pm to
The problem arises when we consider that Grace saves exclusively by claiming that we believe in Christ. If we truly believe in the Grace He offers then we must live in a way that demonstrates it and that means we will do good works.

To be clear His grace is what saves. Our cooperation is how we determine if we are saved. He’s offering us complete mercy we have to accept His gift.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:32 pm to
Just the Solas
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:34 pm to
Grace is what saves. No argument there.

And yeah — if someone truly believes, their life should change. James is clear about that.

The only thing I’d push back on is this: our cooperation doesn’t determine whether God saves us. It reveals whether the faith we claim is real.

Works are fruit. They’re not the root.

Grace is the cause. Works are the evidence.
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:35 pm to
quote:


Just the Solas
Which Sola specifically?

Grace alone?
Faith alone?
Christ alone?
Scripture alone?

Because unless you’re saying salvation isn’t by grace, or not through Christ, that’s going to need some explaining.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:35 pm to
I’m sorry, do you not attend churches where the pastors can afford their own private jets and people will just randomly flop on the floor like a fish and claim that they are speaking in tongues? Do any other churches besides Protestant churches provide experiences like that?
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora
Member since Sep 2012
74497 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:37 pm to
Good is real.

Evil is real.

I prefer Good.

I don't know why the discussion of the finer points of scripter are needed.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:37 pm to
Sola Scriptura is a concept that has crawled out of the depths of hell and you have all been hoodwinked into believing it. It’s why Christianity has thousands of Protestant denominations.
Posted by Uga Alum
Member since Jul 2022
6238 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:38 pm to
Protestant churches are the only ones that affirm gay marriage. Choose wisely.
Posted by Bigfishchoupique
Member since Jul 2017
9536 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:39 pm to
Red Beans over cornbread. Smoked sausage. 4 Alligator Pears. French Bread Butter. Milk. Banana pudding.
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195599 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:40 pm to
My dad was a preacher, both my grandfathers were preachers
All but one uncles ( short haul trucker/Honky Tony guitar player) were ministers in the Pentecostal and Assembly of God faith

no one flew a plane

And if you wanna talk about clergy enjoying the good life on the parishioners' dime

Let's start with the Catholic church first
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4528 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:40 pm to
quote:


Sola Scriptura is a concept that has crawled out of the depths of hell and you have all been hoodwinked into believing it. It’s why Christianity has thousands of Protestant denominations.
Denominations prove humans disagree — not that Scripture isn’t authoritative. There were massive disputes long before the Reformation.

The issue isn’t whether Christians argue. The issue is what ultimately binds the conscience.
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
195599 posts
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:43 pm to
quote:

The issue is what ultimately binds the conscience.



thoughts on C.S. Lewis?
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