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Arguments and Contradictions
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:26 pm
Posting James 2:24 by itself isn’t an argument — it’s a proof-text.
James grounds that verse in Abraham offering Isaac.
But Abraham was declared righteous in Genesis 15 — decades before Isaac in Genesis 22. Paul explicitly makes that chronological point in Romans 4.
So unless James forgot Genesis, he isn’t describing how Abraham became justified before God. He’s describing how Abraham’s already-existing faith was demonstrated.
That’s why James says faith without works is dead — not nonexistent, but useless.
There’s no contradiction unless you assume James and Paul are answering the same question. They aren’t.
Paul addresses legalism.
James addresses empty profession.
If Scripture “contradicts itself,” the burden is on the reader to explain the timeline — not declare the Bible unreliable.
If quoting a single verse overturns the rest of Scripture, the problem isn’t the Bible — it’s the method.
EDIT: For those without context, this was a response to a whacked thread -- presumably because it had devolved into calling people names due to religious disagreement. I felt the conversation could still move forward without the baggage. I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing. Those who participated had the context from the other thread. Thanks.
James grounds that verse in Abraham offering Isaac.
But Abraham was declared righteous in Genesis 15 — decades before Isaac in Genesis 22. Paul explicitly makes that chronological point in Romans 4.
So unless James forgot Genesis, he isn’t describing how Abraham became justified before God. He’s describing how Abraham’s already-existing faith was demonstrated.
That’s why James says faith without works is dead — not nonexistent, but useless.
There’s no contradiction unless you assume James and Paul are answering the same question. They aren’t.
Paul addresses legalism.
James addresses empty profession.
If Scripture “contradicts itself,” the burden is on the reader to explain the timeline — not declare the Bible unreliable.
If quoting a single verse overturns the rest of Scripture, the problem isn’t the Bible — it’s the method.
EDIT: For those without context, this was a response to a whacked thread -- presumably because it had devolved into calling people names due to religious disagreement. I felt the conversation could still move forward without the baggage. I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing. Those who participated had the context from the other thread. Thanks.
This post was edited on 3/1/26 at 8:27 am
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:27 pm to RoyalWe
orange slices and sparkling wine
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:27 pm to RoyalWe
2 Thessalonians 2:15 commands believers to "stand firm and hold to the traditions" passed on by the apostles, whether through spoken word or written letter.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:29 pm to Uga Alum
2 Thessalonians 2:15 commands the Thessalonians to hold to apostolic teaching they personally received.
It does not say that every later church tradition is automatically apostolic.
The burden is demonstrating continuity — not assuming it.
It does not say that every later church tradition is automatically apostolic.
The burden is demonstrating continuity — not assuming it.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:30 pm to RoyalWe
Nothing about the Protestant branch of Christianity is apostolic.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:31 pm to Uga Alum
That’s a broad claim.
Do you mean belief in the Trinity isn’t apostolic?
The deity of Christ?
The bodily resurrection?
Justification by grace?
If Protestants affirm the doctrines defined in the early creeds, in what sense is “nothing” apostolic?
Do you mean belief in the Trinity isn’t apostolic?
The deity of Christ?
The bodily resurrection?
Justification by grace?
If Protestants affirm the doctrines defined in the early creeds, in what sense is “nothing” apostolic?
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:32 pm to Uga Alum
quote:All of your assumptions about Protestant churches in the other thread were wrong
Nothing about the Protestant branch of Christianity is apostolic.
so why should we think that you know what you're talking about here
This post was edited on 2/28/26 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:32 pm to RoyalWe
The problem arises when we consider that Grace saves exclusively by claiming that we believe in Christ. If we truly believe in the Grace He offers then we must live in a way that demonstrates it and that means we will do good works.
To be clear His grace is what saves. Our cooperation is how we determine if we are saved. He’s offering us complete mercy we have to accept His gift.
To be clear His grace is what saves. Our cooperation is how we determine if we are saved. He’s offering us complete mercy we have to accept His gift.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:34 pm to Stexas
Grace is what saves. No argument there.
And yeah — if someone truly believes, their life should change. James is clear about that.
The only thing I’d push back on is this: our cooperation doesn’t determine whether God saves us. It reveals whether the faith we claim is real.
Works are fruit. They’re not the root.
Grace is the cause. Works are the evidence.
And yeah — if someone truly believes, their life should change. James is clear about that.
The only thing I’d push back on is this: our cooperation doesn’t determine whether God saves us. It reveals whether the faith we claim is real.
Works are fruit. They’re not the root.
Grace is the cause. Works are the evidence.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:35 pm to Uga Alum
quote:Which Sola specifically?
Just the Solas
Grace alone?
Faith alone?
Christ alone?
Scripture alone?
Because unless you’re saying salvation isn’t by grace, or not through Christ, that’s going to need some explaining.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:35 pm to OWLFAN86
I’m sorry, do you not attend churches where the pastors can afford their own private jets and people will just randomly flop on the floor like a fish and claim that they are speaking in tongues? Do any other churches besides Protestant churches provide experiences like that?
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:37 pm to RoyalWe
Good is real.
Evil is real.
I prefer Good.
I don't know why the discussion of the finer points of scripter are needed.
Evil is real.
I prefer Good.
I don't know why the discussion of the finer points of scripter are needed.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:37 pm to RoyalWe
Sola Scriptura is a concept that has crawled out of the depths of hell and you have all been hoodwinked into believing it. It’s why Christianity has thousands of Protestant denominations.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:38 pm to deeprig9
Protestant churches are the only ones that affirm gay marriage. Choose wisely.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:39 pm to OWLFAN86
Red Beans over cornbread. Smoked sausage. 4 Alligator Pears. French Bread Butter. Milk. Banana pudding.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:40 pm to Uga Alum
My dad was a preacher, both my grandfathers were preachers
All but one uncles ( short haul trucker/Honky Tony guitar player) were ministers in the Pentecostal and Assembly of God faith
no one flew a plane
And if you wanna talk about clergy enjoying the good life on the parishioners' dime
Let's start with the Catholic church first
All but one uncles ( short haul trucker/Honky Tony guitar player) were ministers in the Pentecostal and Assembly of God faith
no one flew a plane
And if you wanna talk about clergy enjoying the good life on the parishioners' dime
Let's start with the Catholic church first
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:40 pm to Uga Alum
quote:Denominations prove humans disagree — not that Scripture isn’t authoritative. There were massive disputes long before the Reformation.
Sola Scriptura is a concept that has crawled out of the depths of hell and you have all been hoodwinked into believing it. It’s why Christianity has thousands of Protestant denominations.
The issue isn’t whether Christians argue. The issue is what ultimately binds the conscience.
Posted on 2/28/26 at 10:43 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
The issue is what ultimately binds the conscience.
thoughts on C.S. Lewis?
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