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Dark hearted "Christian Zionism" is heretical.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 8/31/25 at 7:48 pm
The biblical promises about the land of Israel, like the one in Genesis 15:18-21, were already completely fulfilled in the Old Testament. Passages like Joshua 21:43-45 and 1 Kings 4:20-21 make it clear that God gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their ancestors, and not a single one of those good promises failed. So, the idea that the modern State of Israel is a direct fulfillment of those specific land promises isn't supported, because the Bible itself says the job was finished long ago. When you look at prophecies about the future, like Zechariah 13:7-9, they don't promise a national political restoration but a difficult refining—a time of judgment where two-thirds are cut off and a remaining one-third is spiritually purified and saved. This lines up with the New Testament's radical redefinition of "Israel." In Romans 9:6-8 and Romans 2:28-29, Paul explains that true Israel isn't defined by ethnic descent but by faith; a true Jew is one inwardly, circumcised in heart by the Spirit. Therefore, the ultimate "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) is the global community of believers in Jesus, both Jews and Gentiles. The promise isn't about a specific plot of earthly real estate anymore, but about a spiritual remnant from every nation who will be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
This post was edited on 8/31/25 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 8/31/25 at 7:58 pm to RiverCityTider
People in my Bible study were asking this morning if descendants of Abraham (Orthodox Jews) were God’s chosen people. I was dumbfounded (thinking Israelites are now all true believers in Christ as Christ fulfilled OT prophecies) but I didn’t have an argument against what they were saying.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:28 pm to RiverCityTider
Yes.
Israel - not- Jacob
Israel - not- Jacob
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:43 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Dark hearted "Christian Zionism" is heretical.
Is this like a weekly thread?
Do you prefer the Muslims take it over?
Shall we start a new crusade and take it over?
Seriously yes Jews can only be saved through belief in Jesus like the rest of us.
But supporting Israel over Hamas is just sensible if you want to preserve the much lesser evil.
Christians do reasonably well in Israel even if the settlers and hasidics are shite.
They are going extinct and getting murdered, kidnapped and raped in the Muslim world.
They are trying to rape Armenia yet again, South Sudan, South Nigeria.
So if I agree that Jews go to hell are you happy if I think they are an ally worth having even if we should give them less aid.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:47 pm to Narax
Hamas is a creation of the Zionist state
If the Zionist state is dismantled , there will be no Hamas.
Jews lived peacefully with Muslims in the late 19th and early 20th centuries until the illegal occupation began in 1948.
If the Zionist state is dismantled , there will be no Hamas.
Jews lived peacefully with Muslims in the late 19th and early 20th centuries until the illegal occupation began in 1948.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:50 pm to RiverCityTider
I have decided you are nuts.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:50 pm to Narax
A literal, political interpretation of Israel is a modern, dispensationalist teaching not supported by a historical reading of the New Testament. The New Testament fundamentally redefines the concept of God’s "chosen people" away from a national or ethnic identity. This is first established through the parable of the tenants in Matthew 21:33-44, where Jesus declares, “the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit,” arguing that the covenant was broken and the kingdom taken from those who rejected the Son. The true identity of Israel is then re-established spiritually. In Matthew 8:10-13, Jesus astonishes his followers by stating that many Gentiles “will come from the east and the west” to feast with the patriarchs, while “the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside,” demonstrating that faith, not ethnicity, is the new criterion. This is solidified in Romans 2:28-29, where Paul writes, “A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly... No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.” The most provocative scriptural evidence comes from Galatians 4:21-31, where Paul offers an allegorical interpretation of Abraham’s two sons. He states that the current “city of Jerusalem... is Hagar,” the slave woman whose children are born into bondage, representing those under the Mosaic law. In contrast, “the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother,” representing the heavenly promise for those in Christ. To be “pro-Zionist” is to fight for “the land of bondage” rather than the true, heavenly Jerusalem described in Hebrews 12:22-24. The ultimate unity of believers is found in Galatians 3:26-29: “There is neither Jew nor Gentile... for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Therefore, the only biblically consistent position is to be “pro-Lord Jesus Christ and pro kingdom of Christ,” which transcends all earthly political conflicts, as a baptized Palestinian believer is more a “true Jew” and heir to Abraham’s promise than an unbabtised Jew.
The land no longer belongs to the Jews. It was taken away.
The land no longer belongs to the Jews. It was taken away.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:54 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
The land no longer belongs to the Jews. It was taken away.
It belongs to a democratic secular country that owns it.
Do you have a problem with that?
This post was edited on 8/31/25 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 8/31/25 at 8:59 pm to Narax
The problem, as you know is the Christain /Jew lobby in the united states which is fueled by unbiblical propaganda designed to influence the evangelical community into pressuring our leaders into participating in Israel's wars
.
You're supposed to evangelize to the Jew, who faces hell absent repentance. Not enable him and his land grab.
Repent.
.
You're supposed to evangelize to the Jew, who faces hell absent repentance. Not enable him and his land grab.
Repent.
This post was edited on 8/31/25 at 9:03 pm
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:02 pm to RiverCityTider
The only solution is to return everyone with Middle Eastern lineage back there until we can sort all this out.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:03 pm to RiverCityTider
This is the proper take courtesy of Pope Pius X
quote:
We cannot give approval to this movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem – but we could never sanction it. The soil of Jerusalem, if it was not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church I cannot tell you anything different. The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people.
And so, if you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we shall have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you
”
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:05 pm to SkiUtah420
And thus it was for most of Christian history.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:05 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Your supposed to evangelize to the Jew, who faces hell absent repentance. Not enable him and his land grab.
Hmmm.
quote:
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him.
Caesar being the USA in our context.
quote:
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm.”
So why do you have such a hard on against the state of Israel, what would you replace it with?
I might note unbiblically.
Again good US ally.
Do you have a problem with Christians taking a secular stand that Israel is a better ally than Hamas who murders Christian booksellers.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:09 pm to Narax
"Good US Ally". In what war did they fight along. side us for OUR interests?
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:11 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Good US Ally". In what war did they fight along. side us for OUR interests?
100%
What do we get out of the relationship? Nothing . We get spied on, we face the resentment from the global community for unilateral blind support for an apartheid state / pariah.
It’s the worst alliance ever
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:13 pm to SkiUtah420
quote:
Jews lived peacefully with Muslims in the late 19th and early 20th centuries until the illegal occupation began in 1948.
Hmm
Why would you say such a thing?
Have you not looked into it?
Are you just dishonest for some reason?
quote:
The 1834 Safed pogrom, was a month-long attack on the Jewish community of Safed in the Sidon Eyalet of the Ottoman Empire during the Peasants' revolt in Palestine. It began on Sunday, June 15 (7 Sivan), the day after the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, and lasted for 33 days.
quote:
The Hebron massacre was the killing of sixty-seven or sixty-nine Jews on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, Mandatory Palestine. The event also left scores seriously wounded or maimed. Jewish homes were pillaged and synagogues were ransacked.
quote:
The Tiberias massacre took place on 2 October 1938, during the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Tiberias. After infiltrating the Jewish Kiryat Shmuel neighbourhood, Arab rioters killed 19 Jews in Tiberias, 11 of whom were children.[1] During the massacre, 70 armed Arabs set fire to Jewish homes and the local synagogue. In one house a mother and her five children were killed. The old beadle in the synagogue was stabbed to death, and another family of 4 was killed. At the time of the attack there were only 15 Jewish guards in the neighborhood of over 2,000 people.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:19 pm to Narax
You should worry more about the slaughter and displacement of Christians in Syria and Iraq caused by wars lobbied for by Netenyahu this century.
American Jewish inspired wars are always hell on Christians.
American Jewish inspired wars are always hell on Christians.
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:21 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
"Good US Ally". In what war did they fight along. side us for OUR interests?
quote:
Approximately 550,000 Jewish men and women served in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II. They served in all branches of the military and on all fronts, including Europe and the Pacific.
Do you count Jewish Americans?
Do you count Israeli intelligence sharing?
The US DoD radar facility we keep there?
Do you think it's forbidden by the Bible for Christians to be involved in politics?
Posted on 8/31/25 at 9:23 pm to Narax
I supposed those Jewish servicemen were American citizens? Are you saying they were Israelis?
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