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Your pride and arrogance is palpable; and as obvious as your poorly disguised ulterior motives that drive your unhealthy obsession. You obviously take great pleasure in pointing out the speck in your brother’s eyes, while neglecting the plank in your own. It really is sad that you get so much satisfaction from the failings of the Protestant denominations that stray from sound biblical teachings. But, let me be absolutely clear- these failures are not the result of Sola Scriptura, but rather a glaring consequence of the abandonment thereof.

I'm subjecting Protestant theology to rigorous analysis. I maintain that when this happens, we can see the flaws in this theology. It has nothing to do with pride or arrogance.

I'm not attacking any individual person. I will engage in argument, but that's not an attack.

I'm glad that you are being absolutely clear that, according to your version of Bible Alone, the Methodists have strayed from "sound biblical teachings". Guess what? There's a huge mainline Protestant denomination who will tell you the same thing - that you have interpreted the Bible incorrectly and that THEY are the ones implementing "sound biblical teachings".

Both cannot be true at the same time. Two Bible Alone denominations claim that the Holy Spirit led them to two opposite interpretations. This is a problem. There's something broken about this system of Bible Alone/Faith Alone. We know that something's wrong because Protestantism keeps branching off into tens if not hundreds of different denominations.

Now we come to the point in the history of the Protestant Reformation where two mainline Protestant denominations have completely opposite Biblical Truths about this very important topic involving God's Plan for Human Sexuality. Both sides utilize the Bible Alone/Faith Alone system for forming doctrine.

Is it arrogant to question whether this Bible Alone/Faith Alone system invented by men living in the 1500s is broken?

Weren't there serious arguments and divisions among Protestants even back then when the Reformation was new? Indeed yes. And this process of constant disagreement and branching off continues now over 500 years later.

As early as 1529, leading Protestants had already disagreed on what the Bible says and were branching off. The doctrine that they themselves invented: Bible Alone/Faith Alone, was demonstrating even back then that it might be broken and flawed.

The Marburg Colloquy that happened in 1529 is an interesting example.

LINK

This post was edited on 5/12/24 at 10:14 pm

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Posted by Prodigal Son

Member since May 2023

738 posts

Posted on 5/13/24 at 7:41 pm to Champagne

Although I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, I try to avoid the RC/Pro debates on secular forums (like this one)- because I see it as possibly being a detriment to the mission of spreading the gospel. This particular topic of debate almost always devolves into behavior that is misrepresentative of the Christian faith. It’s like parents arguing in front of their young children- it’s can be an ugly display of disunity that lowers confidence (or faith) in the institution of marriage (or Christianity, in the case at hand). That said, as long as it can be done with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)- I’m obliged to answer any questions or concerns you may have- to the best of my very limited ability.

I 100% understand and agree with your point that unlimited, Willy nilly, self-serving eisegesis of scripture has led to many people creating their own preferred version of God (which is idolatry). However, I don’t see that as a knock on Sola Scriptura. I see that as a continuation of what Paul spoke of, in Acts 20:29-30, in the 1st century. Which is interesting, because there were no Protestants then.

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I'm glad that you are being absolutely clear that, according to your version of Bible Alone, the Methodists have strayed from "sound biblical teachings"

Aside from the pejorative “your version” comment, I would hope that we are in agreement; and that you can understand that it’s not “my version”- it’s just the truth. It’s not the truth because I say so- it’s just the truth. Does Rome disagree? Moreover, would it be the truth because Rome says so, or, because God says so?

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Guess what? There's a huge mainline Protestant denomination who will tell you the same thing - that you have interpreted the Bible incorrectly and that THEY are the ones implementing "sound biblical teachings".

No doubt. And, in those instances, we can discuss these secondary issues (like once saved, always saved, cessation/continuation of spiritual gifts, Calvinism/Arminianism/Molinism, young earth/old earth, eschatology, church governance, etc) with respect and love for each other. The reason I emphasized secondary, is because these issues are secondary to the core doctrines of Christianity. Which are:

• Jesus is the Son of God and is equal with God (John 1:1, 49; Luke 22:70; Mark 3:11; Philippians 2:5–11)
• Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life (Hebrews 4:15; John 8:29)
• Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 15:2–4)
• Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:46; Mark 16:6)
• We are saved by the grace of God; that is, we cannot add to or take away from Christ’s finished work on the cross as full payment for our sin (Ephesians 2:8–9)

It could be argued that belief in the inerrancy of God’s Word is also a core belief of Christianity because, if the Bible’s veracity is suspect, then all we know about God is in doubt. Saving faith is inextricably linked to the Word of God: “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ” (Romans 10:17).

I think you’ll find it difficult, to say the least, to find a Protestant denomination of Christianity that denies the aforementioned core doctrines. Before you even go there- literally no one accepts Mormons and JWs as Christians- other than themselves, and atheists.

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Both cannot be true at the same time. Two Bible Alone denominations claim that the Holy Spirit led them to two opposite interpretations.

No doubt. At least one, if not all, are wrong on these secondary issues. May God’s grace cover us all. I, personally, am of the opinion that not a single one of us (including Rome) has it all figured out to the point that we can be a viable substitute for the individual guidance of the Holy Spirit in the actual growth of the believers (1 Corinthians 3:6).

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There's something broken about this system of Bible Alone/Faith Alone.

I disagree. Rather, I think that there is something broken about humanity. To say that there is something wrong with the Bible alone- is to say that there’s something wrong with the Bible ( 2 Timothy 3:16). To say that there’s something wrong with faith alone, is to question the salvation of the thief on the cross (Luke 29:42-43).

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We know that something's wrong because Protestantism keeps branching off into tens if not hundreds of different denominations.

This is an indication that there’s something wrong with those who twist the Word to fit their narrative- not that there’s something wrong with the Word.

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Now we come to the point in the history of the Protestant Reformation where two mainline Protestant denominations have completely opposite Biblical Truths about this very important topic involving God's Plan for Human Sexuality. Both sides utilize the Bible Alone/Faith Alone system for forming doctrine.

See above and throughout

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Is it arrogant to question whether this Bible Alone/Faith Alone system invented by men living in the 1500s is broken?

No. It is admirable and necessary. But, to judge the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide by those who pervert it to serve their own selfish interests, is akin to an atheist who questions the truth of the gospel because of those who erroneously misrepresent the teachings of Christ.

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Weren't there serious arguments and divisions among Protestants even back then when the Reformation was new?

Have there never been divisions among Roman Catholics? Have there never been two Popes contending for the seat of Peter? You might want to check your history. I’m not sure this is the road you want to take. From the day that Christ rose- there have been divisions amongst believers. There was division amongst the disciples prior to Christ’s crucifixion (Matthew 18:1-4; really interesting that this occurred after Matthew 16:18). How did these disputes get settled? By the Word (John 1:1). How do we settle disputes today? By the Word (2 Timothy 3:16).

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As early as 1529, leading Protestants had already disagreed on what the Bible says and were branching off.

Due to disputes over secondary issues.

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The doctrine that they themselves invented: Bible Alone/Faith Alone

Pretty sure the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write the doctrine for us. (Sola Scriptura: 2 Timothy 3:16, Acts 17:11, 1 Corinthians 4:6, and Jesus in Mark 7:6-9. Sola Fide: Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 1:17, Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1, Galatians… come on man- just read the Bible. It’s literally written all over it.

)

Look, brother, I don’t want to fight with you. I’m happy to share the Kingdom with my Catholic brothers and sisters. I don’t condemn Roman Catholicism because I know that it is not what Jesus has called me to do. He has called us all to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength- and to love our neighbor as ourself (Matthew 22:34-40). You are my brother in Christ. And though we may disagree on a great many things- we absolutely agree that we are saved by grace through faith; in order to do the good works that He has set before us- as laid out before the beginning of time, space, and matter; by the all powerful, all knowing, all loving, Triune God of the universe that paid our debt in full.

This post was edited on 5/13/24 at 9:18 pm

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