I never said Jesus was made to God. It’s clear to an unbiased reader that Paul and the writers of the gospels did not consider Jesus to be God. They believed him to be the son of God, the Kyrios (the LORD) Jesus Christ. The Greek-speaking Jews called Yahweh “Kyrios” in the Old Testament Septuagint, and in the NT they call Jesus Kyrios, the same thing they call Yahweh. This confirms to the Deuteronomy 32:8-9 worldview of the father deity (El Elyon in Hebrew, Theos in Greek, “God” with uppercase G in English) having sons and the specific son named Yahweh (Kyrios in Greek, the LORD in English) inheriting Israel.

I don’t understand the Trinity argument. It’s just illogical to me. In Paul’s epistles and in the gospels, Jesus is said to be a great angel who’s glory surpasses the other angels, Jesus is said to lowered himself without desire to be equal to God, he prays to God, he cries out to God for forsaking him, he says no one knows the time when he will return but only God the father, he says he is not good but only God is good. Paul says Jesus has the voice of an archangel. In John 8 Jesus says before Abraham was “I am”… that is a title for Yahweh (not El Elyon / Theos / god the Father). Not once in the Bible is it ever said that Jesus is the son of the LORD, but rather Jesus is LORD and son of God.

In my view, the trinitarian excuse was made because some were arguing for the existence of only one god. But we have two gods, or three if you count the Holy Spirit. They fought about this for 400 years. At the first council of Nicaea they had to decide was Jesus God, or was he not God but rather “just” the son of God. I just don’t get why it is important for there to be just one god in Christian theology. Why can’t there be more than 1 god keeping everything else the same? Trinitarians have to blatantly ignore the entire Bible which calls out a plethora of other gods as actually existing. Just look as Psalms 82 and 89 for instance.

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Jesus, in his capacity as High Priest and The Lamb of God presenting himself and his blood to God in the heavenly Holy of Holies of which the earthly Tabernacle and Temple that were mere types and shadows

Interesting. Jesus presented himself in the heavenly temple to be sacrificed. Good for you though to understand that the earthly temple was a less glorious copy of the heavenly temple. They thought there were trees, grass, animals, mountains, rivers etc. in heaven that were just more glorious than their earthly copies.

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But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

And this is more explicitly confirming it was the temple in heaven. The epistles to the Hebrews doesn’t mention Rome or Pontius Pilate. It says Jesus sacrificed himself in the heavenly temple, which matches Paul’s letters that Jesus was sacrificed in heaven (killed by the Rulers of this Age) and how Paul says their struggle is not with flesh but with the archons in the heavenly places.

Seems you have a theological conundrum. Paul and the writer of Hebrews (and writer of the gospel Ascension of Isaiah) writes of a heavenly great archangel who is killed by the rulers in the heavenly temple and only earns his name “Jesus” and only is exalted to more glory than the other angels after his death and resurrection.

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Posted by Mr. Misanthrope

Cloud 8

Member since Nov 2012

5585 posts

Posted on 1/31/24 at 12:53 am to Squirrelmeister

I apologize that I am going to be unusually busy ( for a retired guy) the rest of the week and unable to respond more fully to your post. A few quick thoughts are in order.

quote:
Not true, the Jews continued to burn goats and pigeon at the temple after Jesus’ alleged death up until 70CE when it was demolished.

Quite right. I wanted to make the point that Temple sacrifices were made unnecessary and rendered ineffective by Jesus’s Crucifixion not the Temple’s destruction. Of course they continue until 70 AD. It was a badly worded and botched paragraph.

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I never said Jesus was made to God.

I’m not sure what happened here. This was the lead off sentence responding to this: “ Saying that Jesus’s sacrifice was not made to God because he is God is a little tricky in the Trinitarian context.” Were you trying to say “I never said Jesus’s sacrifice was or was not made to God”? This is your quote I was referring to: “…the sacrifice was not made to Yahweh, because Jesus was Yahweh.”

So my point remains. Trinitarian theology properly considered parallels and refines with some of the Gnostic webs you (and probably others) have spun around yourself. You may not now embrace God as a Triune Being but you would benefit from pondering the Athanasian Creed in its entirety and give it at least some of the attention and weight you give to your esoteric sources.

As regards much of the rest of your post, it misrepresents Pauline theology, the gospels, and the epistle to the Hebrews.

BTW. I shared two links with another poster that I also meant to share with you. They deal only peripherally with his obsession with genocide and suggest his perception is rooted in a 21st century mindset and not the ancient biblical milieu where beings came down to earth and mated with human women created ungodly offspring genetically polluting humanity’s bloodlines.

I believe you will find both the book and documentary fascinating and a unique perspective not terribly dissimilar from your own. The documentary is free on YouTube and the book is reasonably priced on Christian Books and Amazon among others.

The Unseen Realm
The Unseen Realm (Documentary)

The Truth is out there. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it will be opened.

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