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re: NASA pushes back dates for Artemis II and Artemis III missions.

Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:44 pm to
Posted by LSU Jonno
Huntsville, AL
Member since Feb 2008
581 posts
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

I think you're going to see Starship make some big strides this year and my bet is that it won't be the limiting factor after another year of testing is done.

We'll see how it plays out. SpaceX has done some amazing things, but the Blue Origin lander may beat them here. During the press conference the SpaceX rep said their uncrewed lunar test would land in 2025. Since it takes them 15 launches and 6 months to get to the moon (a feat that takes SLS one launch and 3 days to achieve) we should see the first in that series of test launches around June of 2025. If we get to August with no progress in that campaign I expect we'll see another press conference announcing a change to Artemis III's mission.

quote:

The SLS is an impressive machine but it can't really do anything other send the Orion to lunar orbit.


What exactly can Starship do (assuming it will do anything) that SLS cannot? SLS is optimized around delivering payload to the moon, but that doesn't mean it can't do other missions. Starship is optimized around delivering thousands of Starlink satellites to low earth orbit. That's why it takes them 15 launches to bring a ham sandwich to the moon.

quote:

The name of the game in the space industry now is reusability

Oh, is it? So it wasn't the name of the game in the 1970's when the Space Shuttle was designed, but now it is? Here is some Aerospace Economics 101 for you guys... Reusability is cool, but it's not king. The number one expense of aerospace programs isn't hardware, it's people. Which means when you expend launch vehicles into the ocean, you aren't throwing away the most expensive piece of your program. Reusability only makes financial sense if you have a market for many many missions per year. Reusability increases your manpower cost (already your highest cost) for refurb etc. It also costs you performance on your mission. Every ounce of propellant, landing gear etc. that you use to land your vehicle is lost payload capacity. SLS was designed for pure power to the moon with a low launch rate. Reusability doesn't makes sense in that space. Elon created his own market with Starship - delivering thousands of Starlink satellites to low earth orbit. That's the only way that machine makes financial sense. They are trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole using it for the human landing system. That's not to say it won't work, but it will come at the expense of mission complexity, which is the whole point of the Smarter Everyday youtube video.


Posted by Scuttle But
Member since Nov 2023
1301 posts
Posted on 1/10/24 at 9:04 pm to
Sure, SLS is a marvel of engineering and a very capable video but it's just too expensive at $12 bn in development costs and an estimated $2bn per launch. Starship has about $5bn or so invested so far in developmental costs. That'll probably go up more but doubtful that it will reach the $12bn spent on SLS. Musk estimates a cost of $10 million per launch once all the kinks are worked out. Let's say Musk is wrong and it costs $30 mil per launch. Even at 20 launches to refuel and get the HLS to the moon you're looking at almost a quarter of the cost of the SLS.

Plus Starship is going to be doing a lot more than just launching starlink satellites. It's going to turn a profit just getting other commercial and government payloads to orbit.

If reusability weren't king in Aerospace then SpaceX wouldn't be the main player in the space industry right now. I mean there's SpaceX and there's everyone else in a very distant 2nd place. It's not even close. SpaceX sent like 90% of of payload to orbit for the entire planet last year.

SLS is just too expensive. NASA will launch 7-10 times for the Artemis program and then it will be canceled due to cost.
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