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re: Napoleon

Posted on 12/3/23 at 12:17 pm to
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
49398 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

What separated him from other general's on the battlefield? I'm curious...


It's been pointed out that he is the "father of modern military organization" and that is true. The full meaning of that phrase covers lots of ground. When we think of an army composed of Corps, and then each Corps containing Divisions and Divisions containing a couple of Brigades, we are thinking of the military organization of an army as Napoleon designed it. This is only one innovation of Napoleon.

Napoleon's influence on strategy entails his development of a strategic mode of maneuver through which an army could maneuver with maximum and quick striking power. Each of four corps marching within one day (max) supporting distance of one another. Whichever corps might find the enemy army first is strong enough to deploy and defend itself for a day. Meanwhile, the other three corps are fully informed of the enemy's whereabouts and the non engaged three corps are maneuvering to pin the enemy in the front and to march to the enemy's flank or rear to deliver a decisive blow. In the year 1790, this was unorthodox and very innovative. It was something that nobody else in Europe or America were practicing.

As for tactical maneuver on the battlefield itself, Napoleon's innovations were decisively important. No other army in Europe or America had developed a tactical system in which individual battalions could advance rapidly on the battlefield in a formation colloquially called an "attack column". This formation had the training and capability to rapidly meet a battlefield need, a gap in the line, for example. This battalion could then rapidly deploy into a battle line formation, and then, once it could again advance, it could rapidly PLOY back into attack column and move forward on the battlefield. If enemy cavalry threatened, the battalion could form Square with great speed, because it was an exceptionally well-trained battalion.

The other European and American armies could not do this during the time of 1790 to 1807. These armies did not have maneuver battalions in Napoleon's sense of the term. These armies were still wedded somewhat to the linear-style of tactics seen during the 1760s for Frederick the Great's wars. Until his enemies adopted his methods, the enemy's armies were organized and deployed into very large parts called "columns" which were about the size of a large Napoleonic Corps. But, these columns were established as an exigency on the eve of a campaign or battle. They would never have trained together on maneuvers as part of a larger army. Napoleon's Corps, Divisions, Brigades, Regiments and Battalions were very well trained and drilled on Army-level maneuvers.

Promotions and commands awarded on the basis of merit rather than based on Royalty was in innovation already mentioned. Of course the American Army was already doing this in 1775, but Napoleon's European enemies were not.

So, this question of: What exactly made Napoleon better than his contemporaries? is a question that has a long and complex answer. But the fact is, Englishmen and Americans, by and large, have absolutely no interest in learning about how some faggy, cuck, midget Frenchy could be such a great military mind.

So, because of that, we have Ridley Scott's movie: Napoleon.
This post was edited on 12/3/23 at 12:23 pm
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
66033 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

He DID defeat the kingdoms army in open battle before the seige and DID allow the Christian defenders leave the city once the city was surrendered.


Sure. However, what the movie leaves out is the fact that any Christian who could not pay a tax to leave Jerusalem was sold into slavery. Balian and the archbishop ransomed as many Christians as they could with their own money but many Christians in the city ended up being sold into slavery.
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
49398 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

his wars of vanity


I don't really agree with much of your post. I definitely do not agree that all of the Napoleonic Wars were caused by Napoleon's vanity. When one closely examines the 1800 to 1807 years, it's really not possible to say that Napoleon's vanity caused these wars, since, it was the Allies declaring war against him.

But, you may have a point with regard to him keeping the conflicts going after the year 1813. Perhaps it was his vanity that caused him to keep reaching for the stars. Perhaps that was selfishness.
Posted by jackamo3300
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2004
2901 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 4:38 pm to
Certainly taken individually there were some of his expeditions that were in response to threats against France, but what else could you call his Battle of the Pyramids, almost as if done on a whim.

An easy battle for his forces against a very weak foe, an army of Mamelukes who were a declining muslim power.

It had been a long while since the military genius of the Mameluke Baibars.

Much like the battles of Louis XIV who after the battle was over against a weak foe, he would jump on the highest point he could find and wave the flag of France triumphantly as though he himself had been in the heat of the battle. Vanity can't be summarily discounted when it comes to leaders.

The Egyptian campaign was only positive in the great new look Napoleon's savants gave the world about Egypt with their accurate, masterful sketches.


Posted by Wildcat1996
Lexington, KY
Member since Jul 2020
6774 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 5:02 pm to
I will see if I can get my hands on a copy.

My first delve into the French Revolution came with a book by a now retired colleague.

It dives deep into the political machinations of the competing parties of the day, but ends with the coronation.

I'd like to get from there to the revolutions of 1830 and 1848.


LINK
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
49398 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 5:03 pm to
Of course, you are correct WRT associating the personal attribute of vanity with Napoleon as well as all of the very accomplished and famous people that we know of today and throughout all of history.

It is a fun thing to debate WHICH of Napoleon's deeds were done out of vanity and which were done out of altruism. It is a mix of both for sure. Even his 1812 campaign against the Russia may be argued to be out of his sense of vanity.

Maybe you are right about the Pyramids episode being out of vanity.

But IMHO, when looking at his European wars of 1800 through 1807, European Royalty were aggressively banding together in order to destroy him and restore the Bourbon Monarchy. IMHO Napoleon was the "Good Guy" at least during these years.

But, seems to me that just about every highly famous and accomplished person is at least somewhat vain to a fault. Napoleon, Paul McCartney, Ceasar, Mick Jagger for examples maybe?
Posted by jackamo3300
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2004
2901 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

IMHO Napoleon was the "Good Guy" at least during these years.


Over here we've never considered him anything less than "a good guy." Have only questioned some of his wrong moves, of which Russia was the most disastrous.

But along with everything else he also showed his empathy, even compassion, with his compilation of the Civil Code, of which one of its purposes was to see that children would not be shut out/disinherited by their parents.

Posted by DownSouthJukin
Coaching Changes Board
Member since Jan 2014
28462 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

Champagne


Thank you. I clearly need to study Napoleon more. When I can find the time.
Posted by Wildcat1996
Lexington, KY
Member since Jul 2020
6774 posts
Posted on 12/3/23 at 7:28 pm to
We saw this only last week with Kissinger as a historical figure.

It's extremely easy to be a critic. And little is more gratifying for the unaccomplished than disparaging the character and accomplishments of great men and women.

That's not to say that a critical review isn't warranted or that accomplished individuals weren't flawed. But I tire of the "every historical figure was terrible" theme that seems to dominate the literature.
Posted by DownSouthJukin
Coaching Changes Board
Member since Jan 2014
28462 posts
Posted on 12/4/23 at 10:00 am to
I'm not really a fan of Kissinger, but yes, you are correct, there is too much of attempting to tear down historical figures with little objective view of the context of the times in which they lived and the circumstances that they faced. They should not be judged in the vacuum of the early 21st century. The same can be said for statues.
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