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Started By
Message
re: Danny Masterson Sentenced To 30 Years In Prison After Rape Convictions
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:57 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:57 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But, again I ask, other than their allegations of being drugged and raped, what actual evidence is there that these women we in fact drugged and raped.
What “actual evidence” are you wanting exactly? You are using the word “allegations,” but what it technically is is “eye witness testimony.” Which the judicial system, that you implied wasn’t designed to work this way, considers “direct evidence.” In fact, the system was designed centuries before we had audio/video technology or even the concept of DNA. Way before fingerprint technology too. All cases have been decided by either witness testimony or confession up until the last century and a half or so.
quote:
Then show me the evidence beyond the allegations.
You, me—we—are irrelevant. The evidence only has to be strong enough to 1) convince a prosecutor that they have enough of it to present a case, 2) that prosecutor has to use that evidence to convince a grand jury to indict, 3) if they indict, the prosecutor has to also convince a judge that the evidence is sufficient enough to go to trial, 4) that judge has to decide what evidence can be presented at said trial, 5) the jury has to weigh said evidence presented to them and decide, through the legal definition of “reasonable doubt” and the jurors’ interpretation of that, 6) that the state has met their burden and the jury cannot find it reasonable to doubt the defendant’s guilt based on the evidence they were presented.
Then, if convicted, the judge has to weigh several things to determine the sentence it’s not a mandate that takes away their discretion.
We put a lot of faith in the hands of human beings to determine our fates. That’s why there are so many safeguard steps along the way to, hopefully, protect us from false accusations. I think we all agree that it should be hard—VERY hard—to take a human being’s freedom away. Especially in America where we—ideally—value our freedom more than any other country in the history of civilization.
But there’s no getting around that, at the end of the day, our fates are ultimately decided human beings. We have to hope that the human beings who decided Masterson’s fate did so in a legal and unbiased manner. And if they didn’t, that the appeal process built into the system can rectify it. But that potential rectification would ultimately just be determined by a different set of human beings. Who are all flawed.
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 11:57 am
3
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:57 am to Warrior Poet
quote:
In today's word, it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get a jury to convict someone of any serious crime.
Depends VERY heavily on where you are (which you do acknowledge right afterward).
The real issue is that a random sampling of twelve Americans in 2023 is guaranteed to be full of retards which makes it a complete crapshoot as to how a lot of cases go. Our system is built on a lot of assumptions about the average man that are no longer true (if indeed they ever were). It only continues to exist as it is because we rightly don’t trust people in power to change it—they’re just going to make it even worse.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:05 pm to jatilen
What I'd like to know is what were the sexes of the people or person who determined jail time? Judge or jury? I'd imagine jury had to be over 50% female or judge be female to get 30 years here
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:07 pm to Hot Carl
A lot of people on here say that we don't convict enough or people should stay in prison longer but the US has BY FAR THE HIGHEST incarceration rate of all 200+ countries in the world.
Louisiana is highest of all the US, so we are literally by far the most likely place to end up in Prison in the entire world. *I know depends on actions*
Louisiana is highest of all the US, so we are literally by far the most likely place to end up in Prison in the entire world. *I know depends on actions*
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:10 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The links above are why it should require more than allegations to convict for rape
What more, specifically, do you think it should require? You seem to be implying either DNA or an actual video recording. Which means you don’t think anyone in history should have ever been convicted of rape before the end of the 20th century.
quote:
But is “probably guilty” the standard we want to you when deciding to send a US citizen to prison for 30 years?
No; the standard we want—that we have—is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” And none of us were in that courtroom every day to be qualified to determine whether or not the state met that standard. The 12 jurors seem to think they did. So I HOPE AND PRAY they actually did. But reading a handful of articles isn’t nearly enough for us to know one way or another.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:15 pm to Hot Carl
So when one woman told the church that Danny had raped her, they told her she couldn't use that word because people in a relationship can't be raped, according to the church. They made her serve a punishment for slandering him by giving her punishment duties.
Why the frick are they tax exempt?
Why the frick are they tax exempt?
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:19 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
And in jurisdictions where the politics are primarily blue, it is even more difficult.
primarily blue politics in this particular case no doubt helped the prosecution. there is no way that a "primarily blue" jury is going to side with a white male accused of rape in the "believe all women" #MeToo capital of the world. come on now.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 12:48 pm to Sam Quint
So, you are saying that based on your assessment of the record this jury ignored the presumption of evidence, ignored the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, ignored the entire defense in the case, ignored the judge's instruction and convicted unanimously b/c the defendant was a white male?
How many whites on the jury?
How many men?
And, if your theory is correct that they ignored the law and evidence and just convicted, why did they not convict him of the third count?
How many whites on the jury?
How many men?
And, if your theory is correct that they ignored the law and evidence and just convicted, why did they not convict him of the third count?
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:02 pm to nitwit
Maybe I shouldn't have said "no doubt". I have no idea because I wasn't there, but yes, all that stuff you said I think is very possible.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:07 pm to Sam Quint
What did you see in the record that causes you to believe this ?
Or, are you just assuming that Masterson is just the latest rich, celebrity white male with the best most expensive lawyers in the world to represent him, that is victimized by a biased judicial system?
Just another victim?
Or, are you just assuming that Masterson is just the latest rich, celebrity white male with the best most expensive lawyers in the world to represent him, that is victimized by a biased judicial system?
Just another victim?
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:19 pm to nitwit
Danny Masterson Trial Overview - Reddit
Jane Doe #1
Testimony Day 1 and Day 2
Jane Doe #1, a second-generation Scientologist, was drugged and raped by Masterson at a house party on April 24, 2003. He gave her a red cocktail that made her feel weak and nauseous and terrified because she could not breathe or see properly. Masterson took her upstairs and soaped her breasts in the shower, then took her into his bedroom and raped her as she fell in and out of consciousness. During the act he threatened her with a black pistol and choked her when she tried to reach for a lamp to hit him with. He stopped to answer a voice at the door and she rolled off the bed and crawled into his closet.
In the morning she had to rush to make a flight to Clearwater, Florida with her family. She was in extreme pain and had difficulty sitting. About 24 hours after the rape bruises started to appear on her wrists, hips, thighs, and neck. Her younger cousin Rachel asked her about them and Jane simply told her that something terrible had happened to her.
Once back in Los Angeles, Jane went to her Master At Arms Julian Swartz. Swartz said, “If you’re going to say the word ‘rape,’ don’t say it. We don’t say that word here,” and ordered her not to report the rape to the LAPD or she would be declared a Suppressive Person/ SP* (an enemy of the church). Instead, she was made to pay $15,000 for Scientology counseling called auditing where she had to examine the wrongdoings she may have committed in "past lives" in order to deserve being a victim in her current life.
In April 2004, a meeting between Jane and Masterson was arranged in order for him to hear about the rape from Jane's perspective and "confront" what he had done. However, Masterson repeatedly interrupted the story to make jokes, angering the Scientology officials present into cutting the meeting short.
Shortly afterwards, Jane heard from a friend about a girl named Lilly who had also been raped by Masterson and decided she wanted to go to the police (Lilly is not one of the eight women who have accused Masterson so far). She wrote a letter to International Justice Chief Mike Ellis asking for special permission to report the rape to the police without being labelled an SP, but received a reply warning her to review "the alternatives and possible consequences carefully."
On June 6, 2004, Jane went to the police station alone and filed a report. The police station was flooded with affidavits from Scientologists vouching for Masterson and claiming that Jane had called the rape "the best sex she ever had." In July, Jane was told that unless more victims came forward the investigation was closed.
Jane Doe #3 aka Chrissie Carnell Bixler
Testimony Day 2 and Day 3
Chrissie and Masterson dated and lived together for six years and he introduced her to Scientology. They met at a party in September 1996, when she was 18 and he was 22, and moved in together two weeks later.
A year into the relationship Danny became "aggressive sexually." Chrissie would be sleeping and wake up to him having sex with her. She would push him off. He would put his hands down her pants in front of his mother. He also became physically and emotionally abusive. In November 2001, Chrissie woke up to Danny having sex with her and she became angry. "I did something that I knew would make him angry — I pulled his hair. He has rules. No touching the hair, no touching the face." Danny responded by hitting her face with a loose fist. "I got angry, screaming at him to get off me. He was still inside me. He finally got off me and spit on me. He did that often. He called me white trash." Chrissie states that she remembers the incident because it was the first time that he hit her.
In December 2001, Chrissie and Masterson had dinner and she had one or two glasses of wine. The last thing she remembers is standing up to go home. She woke up the next morning confused and in a lot of pain. She went downstairs and confronted Danny and indicated that her anus was injured, and he laughed at her. She asked him if he had sex with her and he replied yes. She asked if she had been unconscious and he replied yes. The whole time? Yes. She told him that she was going to report him to the church and he said that was fine.
The next day, Chrissie went to the Ethics Office and and talked to her Master At Arms, Miranda Skoggins. Skoggins told her that you can't rape someone you are in a relationship with, and told her not to use the word rape again. Miranda showed her the High Crimes policies in Scientology, one of which is reporting a fellow Scientologist to law enforcement. Skoggins had Chrissie write a report about the incident, warning her not to use the "r word" and to focus on herself and what she might have done to "pull in" what had happened to her.
In 2016, Chrissie, still a Scientologist at the time, learned of what had happened to Jane Doe #1 from a friend of Danny's named Damian Perkins. Chrissie called RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) and asked them "if you’re in a relationship and you’re unconscious and they have sex with you. Is that rape? She then defined rape for me." "What did you do?" "I cried."
In December 2016, Chrissie reported the rape to the Austin Police Department.
Jane Doe #1
Testimony Day 1 and Day 2
Jane Doe #1, a second-generation Scientologist, was drugged and raped by Masterson at a house party on April 24, 2003. He gave her a red cocktail that made her feel weak and nauseous and terrified because she could not breathe or see properly. Masterson took her upstairs and soaped her breasts in the shower, then took her into his bedroom and raped her as she fell in and out of consciousness. During the act he threatened her with a black pistol and choked her when she tried to reach for a lamp to hit him with. He stopped to answer a voice at the door and she rolled off the bed and crawled into his closet.
In the morning she had to rush to make a flight to Clearwater, Florida with her family. She was in extreme pain and had difficulty sitting. About 24 hours after the rape bruises started to appear on her wrists, hips, thighs, and neck. Her younger cousin Rachel asked her about them and Jane simply told her that something terrible had happened to her.
Once back in Los Angeles, Jane went to her Master At Arms Julian Swartz. Swartz said, “If you’re going to say the word ‘rape,’ don’t say it. We don’t say that word here,” and ordered her not to report the rape to the LAPD or she would be declared a Suppressive Person/ SP* (an enemy of the church). Instead, she was made to pay $15,000 for Scientology counseling called auditing where she had to examine the wrongdoings she may have committed in "past lives" in order to deserve being a victim in her current life.
In April 2004, a meeting between Jane and Masterson was arranged in order for him to hear about the rape from Jane's perspective and "confront" what he had done. However, Masterson repeatedly interrupted the story to make jokes, angering the Scientology officials present into cutting the meeting short.
Shortly afterwards, Jane heard from a friend about a girl named Lilly who had also been raped by Masterson and decided she wanted to go to the police (Lilly is not one of the eight women who have accused Masterson so far). She wrote a letter to International Justice Chief Mike Ellis asking for special permission to report the rape to the police without being labelled an SP, but received a reply warning her to review "the alternatives and possible consequences carefully."
On June 6, 2004, Jane went to the police station alone and filed a report. The police station was flooded with affidavits from Scientologists vouching for Masterson and claiming that Jane had called the rape "the best sex she ever had." In July, Jane was told that unless more victims came forward the investigation was closed.
Jane Doe #3 aka Chrissie Carnell Bixler
Testimony Day 2 and Day 3
Chrissie and Masterson dated and lived together for six years and he introduced her to Scientology. They met at a party in September 1996, when she was 18 and he was 22, and moved in together two weeks later.
A year into the relationship Danny became "aggressive sexually." Chrissie would be sleeping and wake up to him having sex with her. She would push him off. He would put his hands down her pants in front of his mother. He also became physically and emotionally abusive. In November 2001, Chrissie woke up to Danny having sex with her and she became angry. "I did something that I knew would make him angry — I pulled his hair. He has rules. No touching the hair, no touching the face." Danny responded by hitting her face with a loose fist. "I got angry, screaming at him to get off me. He was still inside me. He finally got off me and spit on me. He did that often. He called me white trash." Chrissie states that she remembers the incident because it was the first time that he hit her.
In December 2001, Chrissie and Masterson had dinner and she had one or two glasses of wine. The last thing she remembers is standing up to go home. She woke up the next morning confused and in a lot of pain. She went downstairs and confronted Danny and indicated that her anus was injured, and he laughed at her. She asked him if he had sex with her and he replied yes. She asked if she had been unconscious and he replied yes. The whole time? Yes. She told him that she was going to report him to the church and he said that was fine.
The next day, Chrissie went to the Ethics Office and and talked to her Master At Arms, Miranda Skoggins. Skoggins told her that you can't rape someone you are in a relationship with, and told her not to use the word rape again. Miranda showed her the High Crimes policies in Scientology, one of which is reporting a fellow Scientologist to law enforcement. Skoggins had Chrissie write a report about the incident, warning her not to use the "r word" and to focus on herself and what she might have done to "pull in" what had happened to her.
In 2016, Chrissie, still a Scientologist at the time, learned of what had happened to Jane Doe #1 from a friend of Danny's named Damian Perkins. Chrissie called RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) and asked them "if you’re in a relationship and you’re unconscious and they have sex with you. Is that rape? She then defined rape for me." "What did you do?" "I cried."
In December 2016, Chrissie reported the rape to the Austin Police Department.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:19 pm to bad93ex
Jane Doe #2
Testimony Day 3
Jane Doe #2 was friends with Masterson through Scientology and mutual friend groups. She became a Scientologist at age 16 through her mother. Near the end of 2003 Jane was living a few blocks away from Masterson with mutual friend Ilaria Urbinati. Jane, Ilaria, Masterson, and Luke Watson went out for drinks to a bar called The Well on Argyle. Danny was staring at Jane in an intimidating, predatory way. He approached Jane and told her to give him her number.
A couple nights later he started texting her in a commanding way, saying "You're coming over now." and that she was getting in his pool. Jane felt confused about why he was being so aggressive but thought that he was joking, or that it was his way of flirting. She agreed to come over for one drink.
Immediately after Jane's arrival he handed her a glass of red wine. As it took effect, he continued to be very demanding, speaking like a drill sergeant with a tone of voice known in Scientology as "Tone 40". "Come to the backyard. Come to the jacuzzi. Take off your clothes right now. Take them off. If you don’t do it, I’m going to do it. I’m going to strip you right here." In the jacuzzi everything "started to disappear." He ordered her upstairs and penetrated her in the shower, ignoring her pleas for him to stop. He then raped her violently in his bedroom as she cried, protested, and tried not to vomit. Afterwards he got her a wet towel to wipe her clean, "pretending to be a gentleman." He spoke to her casually about subjects such as his latest Scientology confessional. “He started talking about Mila Kunis and how pretty she is.” At around 5am, she walked home.
Jane told her mom and best friend about what had happened. She never told the church because she knew she would be in trouble.
Timeline
In 2016, a show by actress Leah Remini called Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath began airing on Netflix, which discussed the Church of Scientology and investigated stories of those who have been victimized by the church. Chrissie Carnell Bixler reached out to Remini and told her that she had been raped by Masterson in 2001. Remini encouraged Chrissie to file a police report, which she did to the Austin Police Department. As a result of Chrissie coming forward, the LAPD contacted Jane Doe #1 and reopened her case. In 2017, Jane Doe #2 also came forward to the LAPD.
In March 2017, while Masterson was starring in a Netflix sitcom called The Ranch, news of the LAPD investigation broke. The LAPD Robbery Homicide Division confirmed the news in the following statement to People Magazine:
The Los Angeles Police Department Robbery Homicide Division, Sexual Assault Section, is conducting an investigation involving the actor Danny Masterson. Three women have come forward and disclosed that they were sexually assaulted by Masterson during the early 2000’s.
A rep for Masterson refuted the claims to People Magazine and pointed out that one of the incidents had taken place while the victim was in a six year relationship with Masterson.
On November 2, 2017, HuffPost reported that charges had not yet been approved for filing despite what a law enforcement source described as “overwhelming” evidence. "The evidence includes audiotapes, emails sent to and from Scientology officers at the time the alleged rapes happened, forensic computer evidence and a threatening handwritten letter Masterson sent to one of the alleged victims".
On November 3, 2017, a former production assistant for The Ranch named Nick Olszewski reached out to his old boss in order to provide information about Masterson to contribute to their ongoing investigation. For example, Olszewski recalled an incident where Masterson had known a suspicious amount about roofie drugs, and how he would touch Olszewski's girlfriend in overly familiar ways that made her "so uncomfortable." Olszewski's boss put him in touch with the man who was investigating Masterson's allegations. Olszewski then looked up the phone number he had been given and discovered that the person conducting The Ranch's investigation was Masterson's own lawyer.
On November 16, 2017, Bixler made a statement (below) about Netflix's decision to continue working with Masterson. In 2019 she would also write an open letter to her former friend Ashton Kutcher regarding his continued friendship with Masterson.
Testimony Day 3
Jane Doe #2 was friends with Masterson through Scientology and mutual friend groups. She became a Scientologist at age 16 through her mother. Near the end of 2003 Jane was living a few blocks away from Masterson with mutual friend Ilaria Urbinati. Jane, Ilaria, Masterson, and Luke Watson went out for drinks to a bar called The Well on Argyle. Danny was staring at Jane in an intimidating, predatory way. He approached Jane and told her to give him her number.
A couple nights later he started texting her in a commanding way, saying "You're coming over now." and that she was getting in his pool. Jane felt confused about why he was being so aggressive but thought that he was joking, or that it was his way of flirting. She agreed to come over for one drink.
Immediately after Jane's arrival he handed her a glass of red wine. As it took effect, he continued to be very demanding, speaking like a drill sergeant with a tone of voice known in Scientology as "Tone 40". "Come to the backyard. Come to the jacuzzi. Take off your clothes right now. Take them off. If you don’t do it, I’m going to do it. I’m going to strip you right here." In the jacuzzi everything "started to disappear." He ordered her upstairs and penetrated her in the shower, ignoring her pleas for him to stop. He then raped her violently in his bedroom as she cried, protested, and tried not to vomit. Afterwards he got her a wet towel to wipe her clean, "pretending to be a gentleman." He spoke to her casually about subjects such as his latest Scientology confessional. “He started talking about Mila Kunis and how pretty she is.” At around 5am, she walked home.
Jane told her mom and best friend about what had happened. She never told the church because she knew she would be in trouble.
Timeline
In 2016, a show by actress Leah Remini called Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath began airing on Netflix, which discussed the Church of Scientology and investigated stories of those who have been victimized by the church. Chrissie Carnell Bixler reached out to Remini and told her that she had been raped by Masterson in 2001. Remini encouraged Chrissie to file a police report, which she did to the Austin Police Department. As a result of Chrissie coming forward, the LAPD contacted Jane Doe #1 and reopened her case. In 2017, Jane Doe #2 also came forward to the LAPD.
In March 2017, while Masterson was starring in a Netflix sitcom called The Ranch, news of the LAPD investigation broke. The LAPD Robbery Homicide Division confirmed the news in the following statement to People Magazine:
The Los Angeles Police Department Robbery Homicide Division, Sexual Assault Section, is conducting an investigation involving the actor Danny Masterson. Three women have come forward and disclosed that they were sexually assaulted by Masterson during the early 2000’s.
A rep for Masterson refuted the claims to People Magazine and pointed out that one of the incidents had taken place while the victim was in a six year relationship with Masterson.
On November 2, 2017, HuffPost reported that charges had not yet been approved for filing despite what a law enforcement source described as “overwhelming” evidence. "The evidence includes audiotapes, emails sent to and from Scientology officers at the time the alleged rapes happened, forensic computer evidence and a threatening handwritten letter Masterson sent to one of the alleged victims".
On November 3, 2017, a former production assistant for The Ranch named Nick Olszewski reached out to his old boss in order to provide information about Masterson to contribute to their ongoing investigation. For example, Olszewski recalled an incident where Masterson had known a suspicious amount about roofie drugs, and how he would touch Olszewski's girlfriend in overly familiar ways that made her "so uncomfortable." Olszewski's boss put him in touch with the man who was investigating Masterson's allegations. Olszewski then looked up the phone number he had been given and discovered that the person conducting The Ranch's investigation was Masterson's own lawyer.
On November 16, 2017, Bixler made a statement (below) about Netflix's decision to continue working with Masterson. In 2019 she would also write an open letter to her former friend Ashton Kutcher regarding his continued friendship with Masterson.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:20 pm to bad93ex
There is more on that link I shared but yes Masterson should have gone to prison.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:43 pm to bad93ex
What is it about rich, white male celebrity types who think they can just "grab 'em by the p****y"?
Posted on 9/8/23 at 1:50 pm to nitwit
quote:
What is it about rich, white male celebrity types who think they can just "grab 'em by the p****y"?
Liberalism is a disease.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 2:04 pm to TDTOM
This fits your definition of "liberalism"?
Does that mean that good conservatives can "grab 'em by p***Y" with impunity?
That's gonna be news to a lot of conservatives....
Does that mean that good conservatives can "grab 'em by p***Y" with impunity?
That's gonna be news to a lot of conservatives....
Posted on 9/8/23 at 2:12 pm to nitwit
quote:
Does that mean that good conservatives can "grab 'em by p***Y" with impunity?
As usual, you embarrass yourself.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 2:15 pm to nitwit
Just say pussy dude
Posted on 9/8/23 at 2:26 pm to LNCHBOX
And, as usual, you have only ad hominem attacks....
Posted on 9/8/23 at 2:29 pm to Walt OReilly
Sorry, Walt, but I am old fashioned and, er, ...conservative about such things.
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