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Message
re: Planted summer plots today
Posted on 6/7/23 at 10:17 am to Recovered
Posted on 6/7/23 at 10:17 am to Recovered
quote:
West Central Alabama with a mix of soils including red clay. We went all in on the Grant Woods methods. It has been fantastic for us. We are 3 years in haven’t spayed, disc, or fertilized in 3 years.
Wow! Great to hear! Can you tell me what equipment you’re using, seed selections, and exact method?
Loaded question lol
Posted on 6/7/23 at 12:41 pm to The Levee
So we started with a complete kill of the foot plots and soil samples. We applied the proper lime the first year to have a base. Drilled the Fall Release seed blend. We did apply some fertilizer that year late to help get the max out to the food plots. The first spring you drill the Summer Release seed blend. You drill straight into the the standing cereal rye and whatever grasses are present. After a week or 2 your take your crimper and crimp the entire plot. The cereal rye will lay down like a mat or mulch as he calls it. You just repeat the process using a drill and crimper 2x a year. The basic premise is the weed seed don’t have enough energy to break that mat/mulch layer. As for fertilizer he calls it the Buffalo process where the animals using plots pee,poop, die. The mat/much/thatch decompose turning your dirt into soil. It can be hard to follow the plan early because you will see weeds and it will drive you crazy but the longer you stick with it the better the fields look.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 6:49 pm to Recovered
Nice. Couple more questions
1. What exact equipment are you using? I’m pricing the crimper and drills now. If you wouldn’t mind giving me your suggestions, I’d be appreciative.
2. So you are doing it in this order
Kill
Lime
Fall release
Fertilizer
Summer release
Crimp
Drill fall release
Crimp
Drill Summer release
Crimp
I was under the impression that you need to crimp, spray, then drill in the first round or two.
1. What exact equipment are you using? I’m pricing the crimper and drills now. If you wouldn’t mind giving me your suggestions, I’d be appreciative.
2. So you are doing it in this order
Kill
Lime
Fall release
Fertilizer
Summer release
Crimp
Drill fall release
Crimp
Drill Summer release
Crimp
I was under the impression that you need to crimp, spray, then drill in the first round or two.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:24 pm to The Levee
I’m late to this thread, but have become a regenerative ag disciple the last 2 years - building soil. I’ve planted 2 fall crops and 2 spring crops now. I’m seeing results.
Found Grant Woods, and really liked what he was saying. Then read “Dirt to Soil” by Gabe Brown, I was hooked. Ray Archuleta and Elaine Ingham explained the soil biology and importance of the right bacteria, fungi, nematodes, arthropods, etc. it all make so much sense when you compare to traditional tillage and hitting it with chemicals.
I took Agronomy at LSU in the 70s, and nobody ever mentioned mycorrhizal fungi. I don’t think they understood what the bugs all did back then.
I’ve always thrown some winter food plots together and we’ve probably attracted a few deer, but my last two years are completely different. I’m planting more and it’s producing more. Our last two fall food plots have been really successful, and I’m still not doing it right. I’m starting to find earthworms in the plots this summer tho.
I live an hour from my property, and have a 48 hp tractor. I rent a local drill, and I get fabulous germination with it. I’m struggling most with weed control. My spring planting was wiped out by drought last summer, this year it’s fighting weeds because I went without herbicide. Still I’m getting good forage and seeing lots of deer. Oh, and I haven’t had access to a crimper, but I think it’s a critical piece of the process.
We use Green Cover Seed blends and I like the inoculants - bacterial, fungal, and other. I’m committed to a 5 year experiment, and 40% in, I’m very pleased.
Prior to this program our largest deer was 137 lb. Now we have a 204 lb deer and we don’t shoot many, mostly does.
Found Grant Woods, and really liked what he was saying. Then read “Dirt to Soil” by Gabe Brown, I was hooked. Ray Archuleta and Elaine Ingham explained the soil biology and importance of the right bacteria, fungi, nematodes, arthropods, etc. it all make so much sense when you compare to traditional tillage and hitting it with chemicals.
I took Agronomy at LSU in the 70s, and nobody ever mentioned mycorrhizal fungi. I don’t think they understood what the bugs all did back then.
I’ve always thrown some winter food plots together and we’ve probably attracted a few deer, but my last two years are completely different. I’m planting more and it’s producing more. Our last two fall food plots have been really successful, and I’m still not doing it right. I’m starting to find earthworms in the plots this summer tho.
I live an hour from my property, and have a 48 hp tractor. I rent a local drill, and I get fabulous germination with it. I’m struggling most with weed control. My spring planting was wiped out by drought last summer, this year it’s fighting weeds because I went without herbicide. Still I’m getting good forage and seeing lots of deer. Oh, and I haven’t had access to a crimper, but I think it’s a critical piece of the process.
We use Green Cover Seed blends and I like the inoculants - bacterial, fungal, and other. I’m committed to a 5 year experiment, and 40% in, I’m very pleased.
Prior to this program our largest deer was 137 lb. Now we have a 204 lb deer and we don’t shoot many, mostly does.
This post was edited on 6/8/23 at 6:24 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:15 pm to 76Forest
76Forest
In what area is your land?
We’d love to get to no chemicals/ no fertilizers, but fighting weeds is tough in SW MS.
In what area is your land?
We’d love to get to no chemicals/ no fertilizers, but fighting weeds is tough in SW MS.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:24 pm to Semper Gumby
quote:
but fighting weeds is tough in SW MS.
You gotta use those greencover seeds
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:41 pm to Semper Gumby
Semper, I’m west of Houston, NE of Columbus. Poor, sandy soil. Our pH has gone from 4.5 -5.5 to 6.3-6.7 with no lime. I didn’t do soil samples this year (and had several “fallow” years of no planting).
I think with a crimper I would have gotten ahead of weeds this spring. Maybe next yr.
I think with a crimper I would have gotten ahead of weeds this spring. Maybe next yr.
This post was edited on 6/8/23 at 6:26 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:47 pm to 76Forest
Yep. It’s all trial and error. The waiting game for results and retry is the tough part.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:52 pm to The Levee
Y’all are serious about these green cover seeds. All mixes?
Posted on 6/7/23 at 10:03 pm to Semper Gumby
Yeah the release mixes snuff out the weeds. They literally can’t grow because they are overrun and covered
Posted on 6/8/23 at 2:01 am to The Levee
We have a Great Plains 10’ drill, Goliath Pull behind crimper, and a drop tine front crimper. We may have crimped then sprayed, it’s been almost 4 years so the old mind may have forgotten that part. The mistake we made early was crimping before we drilled. It really helps to drill first allow the seed to spout then crimp. The small plants are so pliable it does them no harm. The cereal grains will crimp in 3 to 4 places laying down like a mat becoming your thatch or mulch. The drill is the hardest part especially if you start with red clay. We have ti make sure we are just at 1/2 inch depth or your seed will struggle.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 6:35 am to Recovered
Recovered, that’s the part I’m missing. Crimping would have helped this year, I’m sure. This April I drilled into standing cereal rye and lots of clover from the fall planting. The cereal rye bent down after I drilled through it - but it wasn’t crimped and it stood back up. So much for weed control.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Weather is another wild card, but I’m in for the long haul. Our sandy soil has begun to have some structure and has changed color in just two cycles of fall/spring planting.
It’s fun, but waiting for the next cycle to try to improve is the hard part.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Weather is another wild card, but I’m in for the long haul. Our sandy soil has begun to have some structure and has changed color in just two cycles of fall/spring planting.
It’s fun, but waiting for the next cycle to try to improve is the hard part.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 6:48 am to 76Forest
Question for you all...
At my place we got a 10' NT drill and we love it we plant everything with it but I am still very much hesitant on a crimper. Seems like a fad to me? I am somewhat uneducated on crimpers I know they are gaining popularity but I'm hesitant to run out and get one knowing those that use them on youtube and the like are paid to use them.
Our current process is spray the plots to kill them in mid April/early may then two weeks later drill them during the process of drilling it nocks the dead stuff over much like a crimper would. Am I missing something that big not crimping?
I still get some weeds and come back and spray about 4-6 weeks post planting and I'm certainly not a farmer or ag major just trying to think my way through it and enjoying the journey as I LOVE doing plots and seeing things get better and better with time.
At my place we got a 10' NT drill and we love it we plant everything with it but I am still very much hesitant on a crimper. Seems like a fad to me? I am somewhat uneducated on crimpers I know they are gaining popularity but I'm hesitant to run out and get one knowing those that use them on youtube and the like are paid to use them.
Our current process is spray the plots to kill them in mid April/early may then two weeks later drill them during the process of drilling it nocks the dead stuff over much like a crimper would. Am I missing something that big not crimping?
I still get some weeds and come back and spray about 4-6 weeks post planting and I'm certainly not a farmer or ag major just trying to think my way through it and enjoying the journey as I LOVE doing plots and seeing things get better and better with time.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 7:39 am to Da Hammer
I will say this I am an idiot so take what I say with a grain of salt. Just saying what works for us..what are you spending on spray every year? What are you spending on fertilizer every year? I bet that crimper will pay for itself in short time.
In order to get the forage ton per acre we get you will have to fertilize the way you are doing plots. This method removes that from the equation. You can 100% dig soil on our 3 year old plots, then go right outside and see the difference.
I may get over this weekend I’ll dig some test areas and snap pictures.
In order to get the forage ton per acre we get you will have to fertilize the way you are doing plots. This method removes that from the equation. You can 100% dig soil on our 3 year old plots, then go right outside and see the difference.
I may get over this weekend I’ll dig some test areas and snap pictures.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 8:28 am to Recovered
Why would a crimper help him save on fertilizer? My impression was that it’s a way to terminate the previous crop at a strategic point in time and help suppress weeds. Organic matter is added by spraying or crimping, so long as you’re not using tillage (which promotes oxidation (??) and loss of carbon).
Posted on 6/8/23 at 8:54 am to Recovered
quote:
Seems like a fad to me
I’m looking at a 15’ from I&J out of Wisconsin and they make crimpers from 4’ to 60’.
I’m also probably going to get a 15’ Great Plains No-till drill. I trust a company that works in the ag production world more than a company that just started and probably isn’t as reliable.
I am like you. Some of this is just to make money in my opinion. Something doesn’t feel right when a person says, “my seed, my crimper and my drill.” I have a consultant to help me get started and to teach me what to look for in the field and soil test results. I willing to spend a little extra money in the beginning to save a few years of trial and error.
I have already talked to him and he told me what soil tests (3 different tests) I need to get and what preferable lab to send them to. Depending on the test results we will go from there on which specific species will be needed to start off and if we need to make any soil amendments to help in the beginning.
The consultant group I am using consults over 3 million acres in N. America ranging from ag/ranches to wildlife properties. They work with some of the bigger names like DU, Pheasants Forever and a couple more foundations also.
Hopefully I’ll be able to help more in the future if anyone has any questions on this.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 9:12 am to turkish
quote:
Organic matter is added by spraying or crimping, so long as you’re not using tillage (which promotes oxidation (??) and loss of carbon).
When the crimper is used at the right time it helps with the C:N ratios. Different plant species crimped at different maturity levels have different C:N ratios.
quote:
Soils with a carbon-to-nitrogen (C:N) ratio of 24:1 have the optimum ratio for soil microbes to stimulate release of nutrients like N, phosphorous and zinc to crops. This ratio influences the amount of soil-protecting residue cover that remains on the soil.
Soil health nexus.org
Covers.Ca
Posted on 6/8/23 at 10:03 am to Outdoorreb
Yeah, I follow that, but how does method of termination alter carbon, nitrogen or their relative ratios? That’s dependent upon the plant and timing, as you mentioned.
This post was edited on 6/8/23 at 10:37 am
Posted on 6/8/23 at 10:46 am to turkish
It doesn’t. The practical benefits to a crimper are that you are eliminating broad spectrum herbicide (both from a cost perspective and a warm and fuzzies about not using chemicals perspective), and that it mechanically flattens the terminated crop to form cover. Like anything else it’s mainly weighing a high one time cost of a crimper versus a lower but continual cost in herbicide and figuring where it pays off. As said, herbicide and a pass with the drill accomplishes the same, both only working and improving the top 3” of soil the desired crop actually uses, as opposed to trying to amend the entire depth a tiller will turn over.
The other and most controversial difference between crimping vs kill then drill is the perceived effect broad spectrum herbicide has on soil micro and macro biology. I’m no expert so I’m not wading into that bullshite, but count me as a skeptic. I personally use herbicide and inoculate all legumes/clovers prior to planting.
The other and most controversial difference between crimping vs kill then drill is the perceived effect broad spectrum herbicide has on soil micro and macro biology. I’m no expert so I’m not wading into that bullshite, but count me as a skeptic. I personally use herbicide and inoculate all legumes/clovers prior to planting.
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