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Started By
Message
talent dropoff
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:03 am
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:03 am
I see it do you????
I hope this class is as good as it's being hyped to be, cause we sure could use it.
In 2003 and 04 we had the number one and two recruiting classes. Then went 22, 7, 4, 11. We are expieriencing a hangover from the coaching change in 05. Throw that in with perrilloux leaving, odom, and benton getting counted for how many classes now??? Our rankings (talent level) is actually inflated.
Everyone will say i am crazy, but there is a serious dropoff. It shows with our pass rush, and linebackers glaringly.
we need jones, randle, mcfarland and debose and in 2010 we will be unstopable again.
Again miles is a great recruiter but saban brought the beef.
I hope this class is as good as it's being hyped to be, cause we sure could use it.
In 2003 and 04 we had the number one and two recruiting classes. Then went 22, 7, 4, 11. We are expieriencing a hangover from the coaching change in 05. Throw that in with perrilloux leaving, odom, and benton getting counted for how many classes now??? Our rankings (talent level) is actually inflated.
Everyone will say i am crazy, but there is a serious dropoff. It shows with our pass rush, and linebackers glaringly.
we need jones, randle, mcfarland and debose and in 2010 we will be unstopable again.
Again miles is a great recruiter but saban brought the beef.
9
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:09 am to dreaux
quote:
In 2003 and 04 we had the number one and two recruiting classes. Then went 22, 7, 4, 11
look at the star averages for a better measurement of talent level. at least one of those classes was heavily penalized for being small.
as to the rest of your points, i think LB is the only spot there's a noticeable dropoff and it is largely due to highsmith being gone. there were some pretty mediocre LB's here during saban's tenure. lsu lacks any real speed at that position, but hopefully ryan baker will help with that. the main problems IMO are scheme and coaching. if you go through position by position and compare players there really isn't much of a dropoff overall from 03 or 07
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:19 am to TulaneTigerFan
I agree that the D-coordinators are the problem. I am certain we have more talent on defense than Bama...but they have a great defensive mind scheming their guys.
A great D-coordinator would have us in the SEC championship game this year, IMHO.
Miles biggest mistake at LSU was failure to hire a proven guy to run the defense. I hope he has learned his lesson. We will know by Feb 1.
A great D-coordinator would have us in the SEC championship game this year, IMHO.
Miles biggest mistake at LSU was failure to hire a proven guy to run the defense. I hope he has learned his lesson. We will know by Feb 1.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:20 am to TulaneTigerFan
I do think that with the class we are bringing in this year that we will be downright scary in 2010.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:21 am to Housplants
quote:
agree that the D-coordinators are the problem. I am certain we have more talent on defense than Bama...but they have a great defensive mind scheming their guys.
go look at bama rankings and get back to me. Shula recruited VERY well.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:23 am to dreaux
quote:
It shows with our pass rush, and linebackers glaringly.
You think Sanders was better than Shepperd or Riley? Beckwith is a good LB, but injured. As far as pass rush, the players actually getting the most pass rush are the newer guys you say are lacking talent. The 'beef' guys brought in by Saban are not getting too much pressure in Jackson and Pittman.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 1:31 am to philter
I just don't see play on the level of dorsey, kyle williams, wrotten, lavalais?????
Not trying to start a argument or say we have no talent, but i can see a small drop off which i think will be fixed by next year or the year after.
Not trying to start a argument or say we have no talent, but i can see a small drop off which i think will be fixed by next year or the year after.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:17 am to dreaux
alexander, pittman, alem, favorite, johnson and jackson were all recruited by Saban.
If they arent getting pressure, its not because they didnt get recruited by the same guy, its because either the schemes arent effective or the players arent doing their jobs, hitting the gaps, staying home, things like that.
If they arent getting pressure, its not because they didnt get recruited by the same guy, its because either the schemes arent effective or the players arent doing their jobs, hitting the gaps, staying home, things like that.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:22 am to Housplants
quote:
A great D-coordinator would have us in the SEC championship game this year, IMHO.
With a great D-coordinator, Lee never throws seven 6-picks this year.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:26 am to dreaux
You can't tell the difference between talent and inexperience.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:43 am to dreaux
quote:
we will be downright scary in 2010
Not if the NFL draft gets the best of us.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:46 am to tzimme4
dreaux,
I don't like to say this but, you do understand the game of football?
The D-line has been doing the best it could, with a very weak secondary and a lb corp that isn't near the top 3-4 in the SEC.
The sceondary is has finally started to show some improvement over the last two games and the lbs are doing better.
This year was a rebuilding year and I predicted 9-3 or 8-4 in the regular season. Far to many fans had us in the BCS.
LSU will be better in 2009 and by 2010 they will be a powerhouse.
I had to post this here also as he posted this topic to the two boards.
I don't like to say this but, you do understand the game of football?
The D-line has been doing the best it could, with a very weak secondary and a lb corp that isn't near the top 3-4 in the SEC.
The sceondary is has finally started to show some improvement over the last two games and the lbs are doing better.
This year was a rebuilding year and I predicted 9-3 or 8-4 in the regular season. Far to many fans had us in the BCS.
LSU will be better in 2009 and by 2010 they will be a powerhouse.
I had to post this here also as he posted this topic to the two boards.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 2:48 am to tzimme4
im not sure its a talent drop off. I think we are inexperienced at some places and maybe some guys havent really lived up to the hype we have given them.
I think our offensive line is one of the best in the country and our backfield is as well. Our receivers I think are very good but QB inexperience has made them less effective.
We replace a 4 year starter in ali highsmith with a young sophomore in Kelvin Sheppard who i think intime will be good, we have to replace Steltz who was great with coleman who had little experience prior to the season and 3-4 year starting corners with inexperience.
Also, I think you look at guys like al woods and jai eugene...very hyped up yet havent really lived up...dont know if it was over hype or not developed yet but i really dont think we have a talent problem
I think our offensive line is one of the best in the country and our backfield is as well. Our receivers I think are very good but QB inexperience has made them less effective.
We replace a 4 year starter in ali highsmith with a young sophomore in Kelvin Sheppard who i think intime will be good, we have to replace Steltz who was great with coleman who had little experience prior to the season and 3-4 year starting corners with inexperience.
Also, I think you look at guys like al woods and jai eugene...very hyped up yet havent really lived up...dont know if it was over hype or not developed yet but i really dont think we have a talent problem
Posted on 11/16/08 at 7:00 am to dreaux
quote:
I see it do you????
I see you posted this on the Rant & Recruiting board. Why? Here is a fact Dreaux, and let it sink in. Saban had 25 Linebackers at LSU & none of them were ever drafted. The last LB'er drafted from LSU was Bradie James, who Gerry DiNardo signed. Miles is much, much, better at signing LB'er. There are 3 or 4 Linebacker on our roster right now that will likely get NFL consideration. Beckwith, Riley, Baker & Kelvin Sheppard.
quote:
Again miles is a great recruiter but saban brought the beef.
Here's the his 2003 #1 ranked class:
RB Justin Vincent, Lake Charles, La. (Barbe HS)
OL Will Arnold, Centreville, Miss. (Centreville Academy)
WR Dwayne Bowe, Miami, Fla. (Norland HS)
RB Alley Broussard, Lafayette, La. (Acadiana HS)- Transferred
DT Jarrod Carter, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)-Transferred
DB Nick Child, Metairie, La. (Rummel HS)-Transferred
LB Dominic Cooper, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)-Transferred
DB Jessie Daniels, Breaux Bridge, La. (Breaux Bridge HS)
WR Craig Davis, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)
RB Barrington Edwards, Bowie, Md. (Bowie HS)-Transferred
P Patrick Fisher, Hyattsville, Md. (DeMatha HS)
QB Matt Flynn, Tyler, Texas (Robert E. Lee HS)
ATH Daniel Francis, Port Barre, La. (Port Barre HS)
WR Amp Hill, Jacksonville, Fla. (First Coast HS)-Transferred
LB Kenneth Hollis, Adamsville, Ala. (East Mississippi JC)
LB Darius Ingram, Tenaha, Texas (Tenaha HS)-Transferred
PK Chris Jackson, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)
DB Daryl Johnson, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)-Never Qualified
FB Shawn Jordan, El Paso, Texas (Riverside HS)
DB LaRon Landry, Boutte, La. (Hahnville HS)
DE Sean Merrill, D'Iberville, Miss. (D'Iberville HS)-Transferred
DE/LB Kirston Pittman, Reserve, La. (East St. John HS)
QB JaMarcus Russell, Mobile, Ala. (Williamson HS)
OL Jerry Sevin, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)-Transferred
DE Carnell Stewart, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)
DE Tim Washington, Stafford, Texas (Dulles HS)-Transferred
DB Jonathan Zenon, Breaux Bridge, La. (Breaux Bridge HS)
TE Keith Zinger, Leesville, La. (Leesville HS)
Here's the "Beef". Exactly 3 players, Dreaux.
1 DE - Kirston Pittman - who has been at LSU 6 seasons due to injury.
1 OL - Will Arnold - Unable to play most of his Senior season due to injury.
1 DT Carnell Stewart - Defensive Tackle, billed as the #1 DT in the State of LA. & #3 Defensive Tackle in the Nation. Did not live up to expectations. Moved by Coach Miles to Offensive Line due to inheriting a program with very little OL & Zero depth. 3 Defensive Lineman in all had to be moved as a result of Saban's inept OL recruiting. I respect players like Stewart, he did what he was asked for LSU's program.
I'm sure you have an opinion on Carnell Stewart, & I for one would love to here it.
The 2003 class was good at the skill positions & a couple DBs. But I think even you can see there was very little "Beef" in this class on DL or OL that stuck around or had the skills to play.
This post was edited on 11/16/08 at 7:07 am
Posted on 11/16/08 at 7:10 am to ShooterMcGavin
quote:
alexander, pittman, alem, favorite, johnson and jackson were all recruited by Saban.
The fact the Glenn Dorsey played a part of 1 season under Saban recording 15 tackles & Zero sacks. It's clear that Dorsey became DORSEY during his 3 seasons with Coach Miles & Earl Lane & Karl Dunbar. Tyson Jackson never played a down of football for Saban. Miles signed Rahim Alem in 2005 & Drake Nevis in 2007, both showing progress along with others.
Posted on 11/16/08 at 8:17 am to Sammich
alright. You guys win. I feel a little better now about our situation. Florida still has the most talent. I think by 2010 we could have that kind of speed on off and def. Anyway, thanx for listening!!!
Posted on 11/16/08 at 8:29 am to Sammich
I cannot believe that I am responding to something as ill-thought through as the original poster.
Sorry, but the problem was your great 'bring the beef'---'Mr. Midget Man' left the new incoming coaching staff with only 12-14 slots to place recruits.
This is the year of that class's senior year and most of that class is nowhere to be of any assitance in leadership or in talent performance.
There should have been abridge or gap between the '03 and '04 classes to the '06 and '07 and '08 classes. There is no 'link of transition' between the two groups.
I think the talent level is on the way up, but senior leadership and experience is down.
I do think the '06 class was not without a learning curve for the staff on recruiting the region and the results of that learning curve are refected in depth and experience at a couple of positions.
Smell the roses, LSU will be in the top echelon for a long time. This is the 'year 5' or the year that should correspond to the '05 class.
Les is making strides to make sure this class does not suffer 4 years down the road as the 'Midget Man' left him with four years ago. Most fans are looking forward to four years down the road as having the top talent in the nation.
I will buy youth----I will buy inexperience----I will buy lack of senior leadership---I will not buy declining levels of talent.
JMHO
Sorry, but the problem was your great 'bring the beef'---'Mr. Midget Man' left the new incoming coaching staff with only 12-14 slots to place recruits.
This is the year of that class's senior year and most of that class is nowhere to be of any assitance in leadership or in talent performance.
There should have been abridge or gap between the '03 and '04 classes to the '06 and '07 and '08 classes. There is no 'link of transition' between the two groups.
I think the talent level is on the way up, but senior leadership and experience is down.
I do think the '06 class was not without a learning curve for the staff on recruiting the region and the results of that learning curve are refected in depth and experience at a couple of positions.
Smell the roses, LSU will be in the top echelon for a long time. This is the 'year 5' or the year that should correspond to the '05 class.
Les is making strides to make sure this class does not suffer 4 years down the road as the 'Midget Man' left him with four years ago. Most fans are looking forward to four years down the road as having the top talent in the nation.
I will buy youth----I will buy inexperience----I will buy lack of senior leadership---I will not buy declining levels of talent.
JMHO
Posted on 11/16/08 at 8:58 am to kennymorgan
I also said the coaching transition took a big toll and we are seeing that this year. And that still amount to a lack of talent. Does it not????
Posted on 11/16/08 at 9:06 am to dreaux
quote:
alright. You guys win. I feel a little better now about our situation. Florida still has the most talent. I think by 2010 we could have that kind of speed on off and def. Anyway, thanx for listening!!!
Florida won the NC 2 years ago and they might this year, but they had an off year last year and lost 4 games!!!
Don't you see? Everybody has off years...
Posted on 11/16/08 at 9:24 am to Sammich
quote:
Here's the his 2003 #1 ranked class:
RB Justin Vincent, Lake Charles, La. (Barbe HS)
OL Will Arnold, Centreville, Miss. (Centreville Academy)
WR Dwayne Bowe, Miami, Fla. (Norland HS)
RB Alley Broussard, Lafayette, La. (Acadiana HS)- Transferred
DT Jarrod Carter, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)-Transferred
DB Nick Child, Metairie, La. (Rummel HS)-Transferred
LB Dominic Cooper, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)-Transferred
DB Jessie Daniels, Breaux Bridge, La. (Breaux Bridge HS)
WR Craig Davis, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)
RB Barrington Edwards, Bowie, Md. (Bowie HS)-Transferred
P Patrick Fisher, Hyattsville, Md. (DeMatha HS)
QB Matt Flynn, Tyler, Texas (Robert E. Lee HS)
ATH Daniel Francis, Port Barre, La. (Port Barre HS)
WR Amp Hill, Jacksonville, Fla. (First Coast HS)-Transferred
LB Kenneth Hollis, Adamsville, Ala. (East Mississippi JC)
LB Darius Ingram, Tenaha, Texas (Tenaha HS)-Transferred
PK Chris Jackson, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)
DB Daryl Johnson, New Orleans, La. (O.P.Walker HS)-Never Qualified
FB Shawn Jordan, El Paso, Texas (Riverside HS)
DB LaRon Landry, Boutte, La. (Hahnville HS)
DE Sean Merrill, D'Iberville, Miss. (D'Iberville HS)-Transferred
DE/LB Kirston Pittman, Reserve, La. (East St. John HS)
QB JaMarcus Russell, Mobile, Ala. (Williamson HS)
OL Jerry Sevin, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)-Transferred
DE Carnell Stewart, River Ridge, La. (John Curtis HS)
DE Tim Washington, Stafford, Texas (Dulles HS)-Transferred
DB Jonathan Zenon, Breaux Bridge, La. (Breaux Bridge HS)
TE Keith Zinger, Leesville, La. (Leesville HS)
Great post Sammich.....
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