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re: Is abortion murder?
Posted on 5/4/22 at 9:43 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 5/4/22 at 9:43 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Now sure, if you’re a nihilist in the truest sense then nothing matters and we should just burn it down. I’m not going to pretend I have anything to offer such a person.
I'm a Christian, not a nihilist. I'm pointing out that nihilism is the logic endpoint of a materialistic, atheistic worldview. People like Azkiger like to pretend that the hypothetical God that Christians believe in is "bad", and I'm just demonstrating that he has no scaffolding on which to stand to make that claim.
You've (accurately IMO) explained why a lot of humans behave as they do, but again, that's pragmatism, not morality. And pragmatism only works if the goal is agreed upon to begin with.
3
Posted on 5/4/22 at 9:49 pm to Flats
quote:
People like Azkiger like to pretend that the hypothetical God that Christians believe in is "bad", and I'm just demonstrating that he has no scaffolding on which to stand to make that claim.
What sort of ground do you think you're standing on if you cannot determine what's good or bad, but are here to tell us that God is good?
For whatever it's worth, at least I'm not arguing for the drowning of children.
quote:
And pragmatism only works if the goal is agreed upon to begin with.
One wonders how civilizations that never came in contact with the Hebrews got the idea that killing people is generally bad. Gotta be one giant coincidence...
Posted on 5/4/22 at 9:54 pm to Flats
quote:
I'm pointing out that nihilism is the logic endpoint of a materialistic, atheistic worldview
No it isn’t, nihilism is a worldview brought about by the perception that one’s existence is meaningless without objective, universal, eternal worth. Some have gone so far as to call it a pathological psychological condition, and a majority of self described nihilists are clinically depressed. Which came first, the depression or the nihilism? I don’t know but it’s interesting to ponder.
Is everything, ultimately, meaningless in the broadest sense? Yes, because one day the universe will cease to exist as a result of expansionary heat death and that will be that. There will be no eternal consequences for anything.
For MOST people without belief in eternity though, the subjective worth and meaning they find within this existence is meaning enough. And again, our biological drive to find such meaning and purpose is incredibly strong.
And in and much as pragmatism is the system by which people agree to live to minimize suffering and maximize happiness sure, but in practice is that so different from any worldview with objective morals? Keep in mind that nearly all world religions we know of have similar base moral codes that codify broad swaths of behavior as “immoral”. Could it be that religions just take the things we generally agree as bad and codify them under god, with regional/time period variations?
Posted on 5/4/22 at 10:00 pm to Flats
quote:
You've (accurately IMO) explained why a lot of humans behave as they do, but again, that's pragmatism, not morality. And pragmatism only works if the goal is agreed upon to begin with.
Societies generally do agree upon those goals though in the broadest sense. The disagreement on individual issues is largely disagreement over the path to the goals but not the goals themselves.
The fact is most (not all, but most) people and especially those not in healthcare who support abortion rights genuinely don’t believe it is “killing a baby”. Whether it be ignorance, intentional or otherwise, or a fundamental difference of opinion on when humans receive a “right” to life that is worth protecting they just do not think about it like you do.
It’s important to understand that, because if you don’t you quickly turn your neighbors into monsters. And there’s only one thing to do with monsters, and it’s not debate or reason with them.
This post was edited on 5/4/22 at 10:01 pm
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