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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:46 am to
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
1588 posts
Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:46 am to
quote:

Timothy Snyder on how the war in Ukraine ends. TL;DR, the Russian factions all go home to fight it out over who controls the disentegration of Russia. LINK

Thanks Jim. Excellent article on the situation Putin is dealing with now and what awaits the Russians in the near future -

quote:

And so we can see a plausible scenario for how this war ends. War is a form of politics, and the Russian regime is altered by defeat. [...] In such a struggle, it makes no sense to have armed allies far away in Ukraine who might be more usefully deployed in Russia: not necessarily in an armed conflict, although this cannot be ruled out entirely, but to deter others and protect oneself. For all of the actors concerned, it might be bad to lose in Ukraine, but it is worse to lose in Russia. The logic of the situation favors he who realizes this most quickly, and is able to control and redeploy. Once the cascade begins, it quickly makes no sense for anyone to have any Russian forces in Ukraine at all.

If you're thinking this looks like a mafia war, Snyder links this update as confirmation. Here are some highlights but the article goes into more explanation -
quote:

Putin is visibly failing at balancing the competing demands of the Russian nationalists who have become increasingly combative since mobilization began despite sharing Putin’s general war aims and goals in Ukraine. ISW has identified three main factions in the current Russian nationalist information space: Russian milbloggers and war correspondents, former Russian or proxy officers and veterans, and some of the Russian siloviki—people with meaningful power bases and forces of their own. Putin needs to retain the support of all three of these factions.
quote:

The Kadyrov-Prigozhin incident sparked a rift between the siloviki and the milbloggers, with the milbloggers defending [Central Military District (CMD), Alexander] Lapin.
quote:

Fractures are emerging within the Russian milblogger community itself, moreover.
quote:

The fragmentation of the Russian nationalist information space could have significant domestic impacts and could even affect the stability of Putin’s regime. Putin will be unable to meet the mutually exclusive demands of various groups. Kadyrov and Prigozhin are pushing for a change in the way Russia fights the war to one more suited to their unconventional modes of mobilizing personnel and fighting. The veterans have been pushing for a more traditional overhaul of the Russian higher military command and MoD and for putting Russia on a conventional war footing and the Russian MoD. Russian milbloggers are currently defending the Kremlin’s selection of uniformed commanders while continuing to attack the MoD and making a variety of extreme demands and recommendations of their own—all the while reporting on Russia’s frontline failings in detail even as the MoD tries to silence them. Putin cannot afford to lose the support of any of these groups, nor can satisfy them all as the war wears on and Russian troops continue to sustain losses.
And finally, the tipping point -
quote:

[What] Prigozhin and Kadyrov are calling for is an intensification of the war, and mocking the Russian high command in the most aggressive possible tone, but meanwhile they seem to be protecting their own men. That too seems like a trap. By criticizing the way the war is fought, they weaken Putin's informational control; by forcing him to take responsibility even as they will not do so, they expose his position further. They are telling him to win a war that they do not, themselves, seem to be trying to win. In the overall logic that I am describing, rivals would seek to conserve whatever fighting forces they have, either to protect their own personal interests during an unpredictable time, or to make a play for Moscow. If this is indeed the present situation, it will soon seem foolish for everyone involved to have armed forces located in distant Ukraine, or, for that matter, to get them killed there day after day. Then comes a tipping point. Once some people realize that other people are holding back their men, it will seem senseless to expend (or alienate) one's own.
Posted by Chromdome35
NW Arkansas
Member since Nov 2010
7001 posts
Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:53 am to
Did you see my post about the arrest of one of Prigozhin's people yesterday?

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=104611481&s=2&p=101373605#104611481
This post was edited on 10/6/22 at 11:54 am
Posted by SlimTigerSlap
Member since Apr 2022
4313 posts
Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:57 am to
LINK

I kinda feel bad for this Russian POW (not). He spent all his money on video games and some TikTok girl he's never met. He also moderates her page and bans people who talk badly about her. He signed a 3 month contract in order to pay his debts so that his grandmother wouldn't find out. The interviewers are laughing at him in his face.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35707 posts
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

In such a struggle, it makes no sense to have armed allies far away in Ukraine who might be more usefully deployed in Russia: not necessarily in an armed conflict, although this cannot be ruled out entirely, but to deter others and protect oneself.
The people most angry with Putin may be the soldiers fighting in Ukraine right now. He might want to keep them fighting as long as possible.
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