re: Talk to me about Wheel of Time series.

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Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a fantasy series written for kids

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You can make this argument for Eye of the World, but I don't think it's reasonable stance for the entire series. YA is really just a marketing term, but Harry Potter and Eragon are YA Fantasy books. Wheel of Time is not nearly as easy to read as those nor does it have the same target audience at all.

I'm honestly curious what your idea of "adult fantasy" is, because you said that you don't mean grimdark, so I really don't know.

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It is in no way whatsoever a YA Fantasy series. What a weird take.

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Yes the frick it is

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Yes the frick it is

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It absolutely the frick is not. I’ve been reading it since the 90s. It is not YA.

The first book is an intentional Lord of the Rings ripoff because it was the only way they would publish it.

After that it becomes increasingly more sophisticated, adult, dark, etc. But it’s also a result of it’s time period. It is mostly pre-A Song of Ice and Fire and isn’t trying to be that, but it also gets exceptionally violent.

And the characters were not 12-15 you fricking dope. They start at 19-20ish and by the end of the series are all on their early 20s.

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We will give your commentary its due consideration

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I will try to find time to read more cringy fantasy shite so that you guys will take me seriously

I wouldn't do that given that you don't like fantasy (although there are probably some that speak more to what you are looking for - much of the high fantasy is clearly not something you would enjoy) but when you come to a thread like this just spouting out shite talk you are going to get push back.

WoT has some cringey parts, the dialogue isn't something I laud but it also doesn't seem like a major weakness based on other stuff I've read - particularly when considered within the context of the genre which certainly had developed certain tendencies.

The series certainly has lots of problems in how relationships are presented and love interests developed and other stuff which I'm pretty sure everyone who has read it in this thread has probably opined on before and discussed with both fans and those who didn't care for the series. On the flip sides, there are tons of fantastic themes and inner conflict throughout the series and many of the main characters have some of the most fascinating and well done character arcs I have ever read, with many ups and downs over the series as the struggle to deal with what is asked of them.

That said, you haven't really put forth many concrete things to discuss and have said some odd things such as it being a hard magic system, referencing your opinions on Brandon Sanderson, and harping on its intended audience.

It has a complex plot spanning over 14 books and while I enjoyed discovering it in my early teens - many come to it as an adult and enjoy it as much or more. There is a ton of stuff in the story I didn't get as a younger person that I appreciate far more on a subsequent read through, which is one of the big draws of these kind of big fantasy epic series and that those who enjoy the genre really appreciate. I think it also worth noting that the series is typically sectioned with adult fantasy and not in YA in bookstores and libraries which speaks to intended audience.

As far as the prose, I personally find his setting descriptions fantastic, he really paints a picture. A lot of people feel this is over the top and he does re-use the same description and character idiosyncrasies too often where it can draw you out of the story. One thing he excels at is writing descriptions using the characters own voice, when in a certain characters POV you will see the world as only they could see it given their history.

I think the only other thing you mentioned was structure, which you would need to expound on. But it follows traditional archetypes in the hero's journey initially but also turns some of them on their head - especially with the wise mentor character. His handling of the chosen one type character and the inner conflict and struggle with that role in a fantastic way, which is a big draw to the series. But later in the series the plot gets increasingly complex, almost too much so where it started to bog the story down but in the end the story does converge to a satisfying conclusion.