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prplhze2000
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Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
41432 posts

One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
We never got the real scoop on Daniel and Marty.

Nope, I don't think Frank intended for them to be the machines.


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
It really is a shame. I believe the intent was to have them be evolved/advanced facedancers.

I'm not sure if Herbert wanted the Machines to be the threat the Honored Matres were fleeing. If that was his idea, I doubt it would've been those two clowns Omnius and Erasmus.

I've always questioned Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's claim that they miraculously found Frank Herbert's notes one day. And that these notes laid the groundwork to basically undo everything that Dune had set up in the previous 6 novels.


prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
41432 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
Don't buy it either. The prequels were ok but the sequels? Please.

The whole theme of Dune was human evolution in response to adversity. Humanity needed adversity in order to thrive. Hence why Leto admired the Fremen even as he destroyed them and he enforced his golden peace so humanity would never fall for such a trap again.

The sequels throw that out the window. I took it to mean the Face Dancers had evolved into something even more powerful than anything seen before and it would take a race of Kwisatz Haderachs to beat them.


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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
10509 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

I'm not sure if Herbert wanted the Machines to be the threat the Honored Matres were fleeing. If that was his idea, I doubt it would've been those two clowns Omnius and Erasmus.

I've always questioned Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's claim that they miraculously found Frank Herbert's notes one day. And that these notes laid the groundwork to basically undo everything that Dune had set up in the previous 6 novels.


I've always been of the opinion that if the prequels/sequels were based on Frank's notes that they were a very early draft of the way the series was going to go. That's say that initially he envisioned the machines coming back and attacking humanity. However, as he started writing the series that morphed into the Honored Matres being the attacking force instead of the machines because the adaptability or and difference within humanity is much more interesting than unchanging machines.

That said, Daniel and Marty are advanced facedancers.


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

I've always been of the opinion that if the prequels/sequels were based on Frank's notes that they were a very early draft of the way the series was going to go.


Or the notes were vague enough that Brian and Anderson took them out of context. Imagine after the first Dune novel was published finding a note that says "Paul's son will become a sandworm." Without context that sounds insane.

The prequels weren't bad, and actually did a fair job of expanding upon the Dune universe.

The Machine Crusade books were fricking silly.

The Sequels were garbage, and I prefer to think of them as fan fiction.

Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are in the midst of writing stories that take place in between Frank's original novels. I don't know if you've had the displeasure of reading these, but if you value your sanity, don't.


prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
41432 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
Frank was writing philosophy into his novels. There was real character development.


These guys are just writing shallow, page turning action novels, designed to sell for a quick buck, nothing remotely approaching serious literature. The chapters and sentences are shorter, choppy, and characters are rarely any different at the end than at the beginning.


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

Frank was writing philosophy into his novels. There was real character development. These guys are just writing shallow, page turning action novels, designed to sell for a quick buck, nothing remotely approaching serious literature. The chapters and sentences are shorter, choppy, and characters are rarely any different at the end than at the beginning.


Exactly. Nothing in the new novels have any tension to them. There are no far-reaching decisions or events. Leto II lived for 3500 years to keep humanity alive for millennia. The new novels had child versions of old favorites running around like superheroes.


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Jay Are
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2014
1166 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
I've never read any of the post-Frank Dune stuff. Some of it is worth the time?


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

I've never read any of the post-Frank Dune stuff. Some of it is worth the time?


To answer this, I'm gonna be a little spoilery here.

Its hard to say. I read the prequels (The "House" books) and I liked them. Though not on the level of the original Frank novels, they did a good job of fleshing out and expanding on the Dune universe. Its just hard to know if these books reflect ideas that Frank had in his notes.

Then came the Machine Crusade books. I read the first one, and I was like "yikes, this is delving into silly territory." But I wanted to finish the series because I knew that they were planning on writing the ending of the original series, and that the ending would be based on what's in the Machine Crusade books. The books had numerous problems with established canon, and also took some serious liberties with the origins of the Bene Gesserit order as well as the Mentats.

The two books they wrote to finish the original series were bad. They almost completely ignored what was established in Frank's original six novels. As purple stated above, there was no tension to them; everyone is the same at the end of the novels as they are at the beginning. No decisions made have any sort of serious ramifications.

Also, it is strongly hinted in the OG novels that Marty and Daniel are Facedancers. The new novels retconned them to instead be the machine bad guys from the Machine Crusade novels. It was jarring, self-serving, and silly.

There were other issues with them too. One storyline that completely pissed me off was when they make water sandworms. Sandworms. In the water.

So, TL;DR version: is it worth the time? I'd read the House books first. See how you like them. Then read the machine crusade books. If they suck, don't continue.


prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
41432 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
Yeah, the beginning of the Benne Gesserit.

Then there is Norma. This superbeing who can remake herself, kill other beings with bursts of energy, becomes the first guild navigator, and in some ways is more powerful than Paul or Leto.

Yet she is barely mentioned in Dune history and someone like her never happens again either. Yeah.

As for the House books, they had the advantage of having the ending already written for them. They were leading into Dune so they HAD to follow a certain path.


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

Then there is Norma.


Jesus Christ, Norma. The Guild Navigator deity who is never mentioned in the OG novels that is now the crux of defeating the thinking machines.


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
I found this website dedicated to the original novels. They hate the Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson Books. Hate them. Here's a thread (jacuruto.com) where they destroy Brian and Kevin.


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prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
41432 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
Hell, she was friggin pure energy. Why would she NEED to be a guild navigator?


boxcarbarney
LSU Fan
Fat City Drum Corps
Member since Jul 2007
14962 posts

re: One disappointment of Dune chronicles.
quote:

Hell, she was friggin pure energy. Why would she NEED to be a guild navigator?


Why even need a Kwisatz Haderach?


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