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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:28 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:28 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I don't think anyone told him, he just figured it out on his own. Ned Stark of all people having a bastard child is just something I doubt everyone would overlook. Littlefinger and Jaime both find it to be too hilarious to really think it through, but Varys is the type of guy who can almost perfectly sense patterns personality.
its a possibility but i don't know how much time varys spends thinking about it when he has never seen Jon
then again maybe he has varys seems to like disguises
0
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:34 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I don't think anyone told him, he just figured it out on his own
I can buy Varys having a hard time believing that Ned Stark has a bastard. However, to extrapolate the strangeness to the point of "figuring out" that said bastard is the son of R + L is a bit more of a stretch than I am comfortable making.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 7:55 am to chryso
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:30 am to chryso
quote:
I can buy Varys having a hard time believing that Ned Stark has a bastard. However, to extrapolate the strangeness to the point of "figuring out" that said bastard is the son of R + L is a bit more of a stretch than I am comfortable making.
I honestly have a hard time believing that others hadn't figured it out really. Sure Robert was too dumb to see it, and LF and Jaime love the fact that Ned has a bastard to really think it through, but I think Tywin as ruthless and pragmatic as he was would have figured it out as well (he obviously didn't since Jon would be dead if that were the case). LF is a master at knowing what people WILL do, while I think Varys is more the master of knowing what people HAVE done. From what we've seen of Varys line of reasoning, I don't think he'd overlook that.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:51 am to OMLandshark
It does seem a stretch that SOMEONE doesn't know. I mean people would have had to have seen a pregnant Lyanna right? You don't need to see the baby persee.
With as many pieces as Varys has moving around and as well thought out most of his moves are, I find it hard to believe he's just let Jon go without any intervention. He's been very instrumental in his other two plots.
With as many pieces as Varys has moving around and as well thought out most of his moves are, I find it hard to believe he's just let Jon go without any intervention. He's been very instrumental in his other two plots.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 12:21 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
It does seem a stretch that SOMEONE doesn't know. I mean people would have had to have seen a pregnant Lyanna right? You don't need to see the baby persee.
I don't think Lyanna left the Tower of Joy for like a year, so only Rhaegar, the Kingsguard, and maybe Willa were the only ones who would have seen her pregnant. But with the amount of suspicion that Tywin and Jaime treat Jeyne Westerling, you would think that someone would figure out that Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son.
He went there with 7 people and faced off against 3 legendary members of the Kingsguard. You think someone would ask Ned why he only brought along 7 men to get Lyanna and why the Kingsguard were still there and not with Viserys, since they could have easily gone from Starfall to Dragonstone and caught up with Viserys in time. I'm really shocked Tywin overlooked this (even if he is blind to his own children), but I don't think Varys would overlook this or tell Robert about it.
quote:
With as many pieces as Varys has moving around and as well thought out most of his moves are, I find it hard to believe he's just let Jon go without any intervention. He's been very instrumental in his other two plots.
I think he knows that with Robert still alive, he would not tell Jon his true heritage for his own protection. Once Robert was gone, and Ned lost everything, there was nothing stopping him from telling Jon the truth at that moment, and may inspire a second Robert's Rebellion, only this time with even more powerful forces with the Reach perhaps even taking up for Jon. Once Ned was not going to the Wall, I think Varys assumed there was no chance that Jon would ever find out he is Rhaegar's son, so he focused more on Dany and getting her dragons. Dany made the right choice on going to Slaver's Bay, since I think Illyrio would have Dany killed as soon as he secured her dragons (although it would be made to look like an accident) and then give the dragons to Aegon.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 3:22 pm to OMLandshark
Can't take credit for this since I saw it on the ASOIAF forums, but does anyone else think that Rhaegar's harp was buried with Lyanna for additional proof of Jon's heritage? I think there's a pretty great quote by LF that may have subtle foreshadowing of it:
quote:
A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 9:21 pm to OMLandshark
I think LF was simply referring to the harp contributing to Robert's Rebellion because Lyanna became infatuated with Rhaegar after he played the harp at Harrenhal.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 9:52 pm to Jayre
quote:
I think LF was simply referring to the harp contributing to Robert's Rebellion because Lyanna became infatuated with Rhaegar after he played the harp at Harrenhal.
I was thinking he was referencing Tywin sending harpists to play the Rains of Castamere to his subjugates, not anything to do with Rhaeagar. It is unintentional foreshadowing on his part.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:19 pm to chryso
My crackpot theory obviously doesn't include him being resurrected. He's just dead and gone from this story like so many others.
I realize this is not ever going to happen but it would be funny because so many fans expect him to be the one. I think most fans would turn on GRRM if he did it and the story would pretty much have nowhere to go from there.
I realize this is not ever going to happen but it would be funny because so many fans expect him to be the one. I think most fans would turn on GRRM if he did it and the story would pretty much have nowhere to go from there.
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:29 pm to Aubie Spr96
I'm still convinced the only living character at this point that knows R+L=JS is Howland Reed. Unless that story gets relayed to Robb's men who are delivering the letter regarding Jon's succession.
And I'd be epically pissed if Jon is dead as in not to be resurrected or anything of that nature. It would make absolutely no sense at this point and would live more loose ends then the Mereenese Knot.
And I'd be epically pissed if Jon is dead as in not to be resurrected or anything of that nature. It would make absolutely no sense at this point and would live more loose ends then the Mereenese Knot.
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 8/3/14 at 12:03 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I'm still convinced the only living character at this point that knows R+L=JS is Howland Reed. Unless that story gets relayed to Robb's men who are delivering the letter regarding Jon's succession.
I think that as soon as Aegon takes over King's Landing, and Jon Connington arrives and starts reading letters as the new Hand of the King, he reads a letter from Jon, and then suddenly figures it out, only to be shot and killed by Varys. Instead of the reassuring death for Kevan, he'd give Connington the worst eulogy possible, saying he waisted his life on the wrong Targaryen, and that he will have Rhaegar's remaining child and sister killed soon for the sake of the Blackfyre reign. He'd die thinking that Rhaegar named his child after him (although he'd be wrong in that).
Posted on 8/3/14 at 2:14 am to OMLandshark
Completely agree with all of that.
Posted on 8/3/14 at 6:23 am to tigerfan in bamaland
quote:
I realize this is not ever going to happen but it would be funny because so many fans expect him to be the one. I think most fans would turn on GRRM if he did it and the story would pretty much have nowhere to go from there.
Of course we would. It's one thing to have major deaths and have them make sense in terms of plot development, or have some sort of payoff. But Jon's character would be utterly pointless if he's dead, so we'd have wasted thousands of pages on nothing.
Which is why he's not dead, Martin isn't an idiot.
Posted on 8/3/14 at 9:07 am to auyushu
No way Jon is dead. Him, Dany and Aegon will have to ride the dragons
Posted on 8/3/14 at 9:26 am to iluvdatiger
quote:
No way Jon is dead. Him, Dany and Aegon will have to ride the dragons
Aegon isn't riding any dragons. He's an imposter. There is only one leader left in Westeros, and that's Stannis.
Posted on 8/3/14 at 10:56 am to iluvdatiger
Jon is the song of ice and fire; no way he's dead.
Posted on 8/3/14 at 11:38 am to ladytiger118
quote:
Jon is the song of ice and fire; no way he's dead.
If the fat man kills of Jon he will seriously get death threats from fans. He needs to pay very close attention to who and how he kills off fan favorites.
Posted on 8/3/14 at 11:42 am to WhoDatGreenBeret
That's ridiculous. I have no problem with GRRM killing off any character. I think no character being safe is part of what makes the series so great.
On another note, back to the best chapters discussion, I just read Dany's chapter where she buys the Unsullied and tricks the slavers and has the dragons torch them. Wow that is such an awesome chapter. Top 5 chapter for sure
On another note, back to the best chapters discussion, I just read Dany's chapter where she buys the Unsullied and tricks the slavers and has the dragons torch them. Wow that is such an awesome chapter. Top 5 chapter for sure
Posted on 8/3/14 at 11:52 am to ladytiger118
Anyone think the dragon's names may relate to who the rider will be? Drogon would be Dany and Rhaegal would probably be Jon (since he's likely Rhaegar's son).
Viserion is the only one where the rider is unclear. Viserys was a second son so that could be the relationship in regards to the rider, in which case would leave Tyrion (book knowledge of dragons) or Victarion (has the horn) for people currently headed toward Mereen/Dany.
ETA - Euron is actually the second son, but he's using Victarion to bring him Dany/dragons.
Viserion is the only one where the rider is unclear. Viserys was a second son so that could be the relationship in regards to the rider, in which case would leave Tyrion (book knowledge of dragons) or Victarion (has the horn) for people currently headed toward Mereen/Dany.
ETA - Euron is actually the second son, but he's using Victarion to bring him Dany/dragons.
This post was edited on 8/3/14 at 2:49 pm
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