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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:02 pm to GeauxTigers18
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:02 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
Ned stated he did not think RT was the type of dude to knock up and produce bastards like Robert. Funny thing to say if you know he knocked your sister up and you are raising his kid.
When? I ask because I don't recall him saying that specifically.
In full disclosure I'm a R+L=JS person and have mulled over it enough that it'd take quite a bit to convince me otherwise.
3
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:04 pm to BluegrassBelle
I believe in GOT Ned said that. Dont remember the particular context.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:05 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
No way there is this underground of Targ loyalists that know Rheagars heir exists and do nothing.
If they held up at the Tower of Joy once it was clear Lyanna was pregnant and the only ones that survived the melee was Ned and Howland Reed then why couldn't it have been kept secret?
This post was edited on 9/11/12 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:05 pm to BluegrassBelle
I know what's he's talking about and yeah Ned did say that. But I read it in a more profound manner. Like he would have not allowed a bastard to be born from his line. Like he would legitimize the child, John, by marrying the mother. That's how I read it anyway
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:12 pm to GeauxTigers18
Then my next question is this. If you don't go with the R+L=JS theory then what are the promises Ned is so haunted by in keeping? And don't say Ned's bastard because it's Lyanna that asked for the promise.
As many times as it's brought up it has to be something of great significance. It's not Martin's style for it to not be.
As many times as it's brought up it has to be something of great significance. It's not Martin's style for it to not be.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:13 pm to BluegrassBelle
Somebody would have had to order the KG to be there. If those orders came from Kings Landing I think at the least Varys little birds would have known. No such thing as a secret in Kings Landing.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:20 pm to BluegrassBelle
Having to lie to his friend Robert would be harder for Ned. More taxing. I dont think Ned could have understood how Lyanna could be with a Targ after what they did to his dad and bro. Arya certainly couldnt have and that is who Lyanna is likened to.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:21 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
Somebody would have had to order the KG to be there. If those orders came from Kings Landing I think at the least Varys little birds would have known. No such thing as a secret in Kings Landing.
You're assuming Varys wasn't so preoccupied protecting Baby Aegon (he is rumored to have made the switch) that he was not aware. We also know no character is perfect in Westeros.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:23 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
Somebody would have had to order the KG to be there. If those orders came from Kings Landing I think at the least Varys little birds would have known. No such thing as a secret in Kings Landing.
Then are you operating on the assumption that the blood she died in is her blood but not by birth? Who would want her killed? If Rhaegar was with her who would do that?
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:25 pm to BluegrassBelle
Well I suspect RTs wifes people were not all that happy. They got knocked out of the game all together.
This post was edited on 9/11/12 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:27 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
Well I suspect RTs wifes people were not all that happy.
But it was Kingsguard that was there. And they would be following Rhaegar's orders.
It just seems like an awfully big stretch to me. And it certainly doesn't explain away the TONS of references to the blue roses, Ned's promises (not really buying the bit about Robert finding out about the relationship if she's dying), and etc.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:32 pm to BluegrassBelle
It is a crackpot theory no doubt. The real question is does Jon have to be one of the three heads? The AA prophesy does not directly relate to that.
Posted on 9/11/12 at 11:39 pm to GeauxTigers18
quote:
So what would they have done with Jon had they taken him. No one would have believed his lineage anyway. He would probably had been more likely to die had Dayne and company won.
I struggled with this for a long time as well. I just could not understand why the Kingsguard would defend Jon Snow to the death against Eddard Stark. I always felt that their vows would force them to defend the king and his heirs. Period. So I just assumed that Aegon VI must have been at TOJ.
That, however, is not the case.
Ser Barristan Selmy explained it to us in a Dance with Dragons:
quote:
The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king’s commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and keep silent when it was not, serve his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking, it was purely the king’s choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others, even those of royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard to serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of greater or lesser degree, and occasionally even their lovers, mistresses, and bastards. pg. 737 hardcover
Therefore, Dayne and the other kingsguard could have been at TOJ through command of the king, and bound by the command of Prince Reagar. After Reagar's death, they would have to keep their vows to protect Jon the bastard (or heir).
Posted on 9/12/12 at 7:26 am to GeauxTigers18
quote:
Ned stated he did not think RT was the type of dude to knock up and produce bastards like Robert. Funny thing to say if you know he knocked your sister up and you are raising his kid.
I think that was when Ned went visit one of Robert's bastards in the brothel, and it was something like:
Ned wondered if King Rhaegar would have been found in a place like this. Somehow, Ned didn't think he would.
But it didn't say anything about fathering a bastard, just about being in the brothel.
Also, if Ned knew that Rhaegar and Lyanna secretly married then Ned would still think that Rhaegar wouldn't have fathered a bastard.
Posted on 9/12/12 at 9:10 am to SLafourche07
As for the reread, I think GoT would be the best route. There is so much hidden prophecy in there that is missed upon first glance. I've read it twice and picked up much more the second time through, but I'm sure there is a lot more.
Posted on 9/12/12 at 10:32 am to Mr. Wayne
Has it been discussed yet why the Valyrian's never conquered past Dragonstone while the Freehold was in power? Westeros was just sitting there, only took three Targ's and their dragons to conquer it, and they left it alone. Had to be some connection with the Children of the Forest or the Others IMO. Why else would they avoid it?
Posted on 9/12/12 at 11:18 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
When? I ask because I don't recall him saying that specifically
He said it during the Ned POV when he goes to the whorehouse to discover one of Roberts bastards, Barra. He didn't say it to anyone, just thought it to himself.
But that doesn't necessarily mean R+L=J is bunk. Ned specifically says that he made "promises" to Lyanna and that he has suffered because of "them." It's very possible one of the promises was to keep it quiet that she and Rhaegar married. If Robert had known that he no doubt would've had Jon killed.
Posted on 9/12/12 at 11:25 am to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Has it been discussed yet why the Valyrian's never conquered past Dragonstone while the Freehold was in power? Westeros was just sitting there, only took three Targ's Has it been discussed yet why the Valyrian's never conquered past Dragonstone while the Freehold was in power? Westeros was just sitting there, only took three Targ's and their dragons to conquer it, and they left it alone. Had to be some connection with the Children of the Forest or the Others IMO. Why else would they avoid it?
and their dragons to conquer it, and they left it alone. Had to be some connection with the Children of the Forest or the Others IMO. Why else would they avoid it?
They never rally said, but I would guess that it was just too far from Valyria and they were busy trying to control their massive continent.
Posted on 9/12/12 at 11:40 am to ornagestorm
The Targs only went to Dragonstone 13 years before the Doom because one of them forsaw the Doom coming.(and then spent 100 years there before Aegon the Conquerer)
With their power being in their Dragons, they probably didnt take the time to develope a navy like it would requre to invade Westeros. That would make the clsoer lands easier pickings. Even if a dragon could fly the entire distance, they cant rule the continent with a handful fo dragons. Need Soldiers too.
With their power being in their Dragons, they probably didnt take the time to develope a navy like it would requre to invade Westeros. That would make the clsoer lands easier pickings. Even if a dragon could fly the entire distance, they cant rule the continent with a handful fo dragons. Need Soldiers too.
Posted on 9/12/12 at 11:50 am to Chris4x4gill2
quote:
The Targs only went to Dragonstone 13 years before the Doom because one of them forsaw the Doom coming.(
Where did you get the 13 years?
quote:
A century or so before the Doom of Valyria, House Targaryen, a noble Valyrian house, took possession of the island and built a castle upon it, which became the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold.
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