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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

Posted on 5/1/14 at 1:43 pm to
Posted by Porter Osborne Jr
Member since Sep 2012
43773 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 1:43 pm to
quote:

Yeah, not sure I'll be able to watch 3.5 hours of it but this evening I'm going to watch from the point they start talking about Craster, the Night's King, etc.



I've never seen these before. Do they have new theories or anything.
Posted by Gugich22
Who Dat Nation
Member since Jan 2006
27813 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 1:50 pm to
Ok...So I just had a thought regarding the White Walkers.


What if they are enslaved by the Night King / Great Other, etc.? I believe there is a parallel between Daenerys freeing the slaves from the free cities to fight for her and someone (Stannis, Jon Snow) freeing the White Walkers from the Great Other to fight for them in the great war: Fire vs. Ice!

This would require someone marching their armies North of the Wall and defeating whoever is controlling the White Walkers but if the slaves in the Free Cities are being freed and now fighting for Dany, why can't the White Walkers join whoever frees them?

I know it's a shot in the dark but I could potentially see the end game finishing up that way.

That poses the question, though, what about Bran, Bloodraven, and TCOTF (frick you, acronym hater)?
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 1:55 pm to
quote:


What if they are enslaved by the Night King / Great Other, etc.? I believe there is a parallel between Daenerys freeing the slaves from the free cities to fight for her and someone (Stannis, Jon Snow) freeing the White Walkers from the Great Other to fight for them in the great war: Fire vs. Ice!

The people in the video I posted discussed that possibility, and how the beginning of E4 started with Greyworm--a slave--who said to "Kill the Masters"; this makes me wonder if he's going to come to blows with Dany eventually. The episode ended with the Night's King and the "12 disciples"--I'd argue that since the Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander that the other 12 with him were the first 12 Lord Commanders and that potentially the White Walkers are their 'slaves'. David and Dan have done a lot of parallels with the opening and ending scenes of their episodes and there's no coincidence that we see the "Fire" slaves/Dany scenes and then it ends with the "Ice" scenes, in particular the Night's King himself in the Land of Always Winter.

quote:

This would require someone marching their armies North of the Wall and defeating whoever is controlling the White Walkers but if the slaves in the Free Cities are being freed and now fighting for Dany, why can't the White Walkers join whoever frees them?

I know it's a shot in the dark but I could potentially see the end game finishing up that way.

Dany has created a huge mess in the East and we're going to start to see that play out this season and very well into next season and perhaps part of Season 6. It was weird seeing Greyworm say "Kill the Masters" when Dany is sort of his Master.

quote:

That poses the question, though, what about Bran, Bloodraven, and TCOTF (frick you, acronym hater)?


Bran is going to be behind the scenes in the last 2 books and save the Realm; however I could see his role/part going unnoticed and Jon getting the credit since he'd be the outward hero of the series.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
40361 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:00 pm to
cool theory off of reddit

quote:

Premise: What if Old Nan is Shiera Seastar?
First off, I'm very surprised to find that this isn't already a theory. I googled relevant terms and searched this subreddit and found almost no one has proposed this before. At first I thought this was complete tin-foil, but when I started looking at supporting evidence in the text, I was astonished at how well it all fits.
First I'll start with explaining some basics as to why this is plausible and then I'll go into some more intriguing reasons involving the three-eyed crow (Bloodraven).

[img]
quote:

The Basics
Shiera Seastar was a young adult at the time of the first Blackfyre Rebellion. She was a half-sister to both Daemon Blackfyre and her lover Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. Thus, if she were still alive today, she would be very old (older than 120 at least).
Is this impossible? No. Bloodraven is still alive and he is the same age.
"Yes, but he used magic!" - "Shiera Seastar was rumoured to use magic too, and specifically magic to keep herself young."
Old Nan is the oldest person in Winterfell, and, as Bran muses, possibly all of Westeros:
"She was the oldest person in Winterfell for certain, maybe the oldest person in the Seven Kingdoms. Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him."
Old Nan's age is clearly stressed to the extreme here, so with the added proposition that some magic was used (as in Bloodraven's case) then it's plausible to accept that the ages fit

quote:

Motivation
Why would the great bastard Shiera Seastar become a wet-nurse to the Starks in Winterfell?

I propose that around the time that Maekar became king, Shiera became quite unwelcome and possibly un-safe in King's Landing. Maekar clearly distrusted Bloodraven, and even had him imprisoned (for reasons unknown). It is reasonable to assume that this mistrust spread to his paramour and therefore she was perhaps targeted also. This explains why she may have fallen from nobility, but if she appeared at Winterfell around the time of Ned's grandfather, what was she doing in between?
Nothing is known of what became of Shiera in the period between Maekar's reign and today, just like little is known of what happened to Bloodraven after he became Lord Commander. It is interesting, however, that these two lovers are both unaccounted for and seemingly disappeared for nearly a century, it is quite possible that these two, now with nowhere else to go, came back to one another. If Old Nan spent time with Bloodraven after he became the last greenseer, it would explain why her stories seem to hold so much truth about the Others and the last hero, etc. In fact, in ADWD Bran notes how similar one of her stories is to Bloodraven's:
All,” Lord Brynden said. “It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin.” Old Nan had told him the same story once, Bran remembered, but when he asked Robb if it was true, his brother laughed and asked him if he believed in grumkins too.
Back to facts, what we do know is that Old Nan came to Winterfell to become a wetnurse for "a Brandon Stark". Presuming this is actually Shiera, why would she do this? I believe that she and Bloodraven (BR) had knowledge that a Brandon Stark would be born one day with the power of the last Greenseer.
My greatest evidence for this is based on this quote (ADWD) from BR, which implies he has been watching Winterfell for some time waiting for Bran to be born:
“I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.”
This certainly implies that BR waited for Bran to be born, but the fact that he also watched Ned's birth as well as the last sentence imply that Bloodraven didn't know when Bran would be born. What if BR's only information was that there would be a Brandon Stark born with these powers? "now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark".
Hence, this is why when Lord Rickard's brother (or possibly uncle), Brandon, was born I believe BR sent Shiera to become his wetnurse, hoping that this was the Brandon he had waited for. He never suspected that the true Brandon would come at 'such a late hour' as 3 (or 4) generations later!



quote:

Conclusion
So, Shiera was left to wait for the true Brandon to be born, and became Old Nan over the decades. Meanwhile, she developed a resentment for Bloodraven having abandoned her after promising she would only be gone for a few years, which is why when Bran first tells her about his dreams of the three-eyed crow she responds:
"Crows are all liars."
tl;dr: Shiera Seastar and Bloodraven disappeared into the cave of the children almost 100 years ago, and waited for a "Brandon Stark" to be born, eventually sending Shiera out to wetnurse for Lord Rickard's brother Brandon, only to find that the Bran they were waiting for was still decades from being born.
Bonus: Old Nan might have Dark Sister stashed in the crypts of Winterfell.
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
33200 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

Dany has created a huge mess in the East and we're going to start to see that play out this season and very well into next season and perhaps part of Season 6. It was weird seeing Greyworm say "Kill the Masters" when Dany is sort of his Master.


Eh, I mean if The Unsullied were holding contempt for Dany they could just leave, they aren't slaves and nobody would/could stop them. And if they were going to betray Danny why haven't they done it? Again nobody could stop them, and they don't have the whole master/slave relationship holding them back
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 2:07 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70538 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:09 pm to
Exactly. After sacking Astapor, she freed all of her unsullied. She told them they were free to leave or stay or do whatever they wanted, but that she would be heading north towards Yunkai to free their slaves as well, so the Unsullied followed her. They were grateful that she treated them like human beings and equals rather than as slaves. Grey Worm obeys because he wants to, not because he feels compelled to. He believes in Dany's vision and wants to help her carry it out. If he didn't, he wouldn't be there.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:11 pm to
I prefer the theory that Melisandre is Bloodraven and Shiera's daughter. And I like the theory that Old Nan and Duncan the Tall got together too.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
40361 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

prefer the theory that Melisandre is Bloodraven and Shiera's daughter.

i hate her to much
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70538 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:18 pm to
How about mine:
When the queen came to the Wall on her Dragon, she actually birthed a bastard with a giant. The descendant of that Targ giant banged Old Nan and she had Hodor. Hodor banged Rheagar's wife Elia, causing him to forever have an inferiority complex and leading him to bad Lyanna out of desperation. R+L=J, H+E=A Aegon is really Hodor's son, not Rheagar's and Hot Pie is Hot Pie.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:19 pm to
Interesting...when I read ADWD my opinion on Mel completely changed.
Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
40361 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

Interesting...when I read ADWD my opinion on Mel completely changed.



yeah i liked her a little more but its been a minute since i read so the show is bringing me back to hating her
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
33200 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

When the queen came to the Wall on her Dragon, she actually birthed a bastard with a giant. The descendant of that Targ giant banged Old Nan and she had Hodor. Hodor banged Rheagar's wife Elia, causing him to forever have an inferiority complex and leading him to bad Lyanna out of desperation. R+L=J, H+E=A Aegon is really Hodor's son, not Rheagar's and Hot Pie is Hot Pie.



WTF
Posted by Gugich22
Who Dat Nation
Member since Jan 2006
27813 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

Eh, I mean if The Unsullied were holding contempt for Dany they could just leave, they aren't slaves and nobody would/could stop them. And if they were going to betray Danny why haven't they done it? Again nobody could stop them, and they don't have the whole master/slave relationship holding them back




Exactly what I was thinking. They are free and have Dany to thank for it. I don't see them wanting to leave.
Posted by Gugich22
Who Dat Nation
Member since Jan 2006
27813 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:38 pm to
Whhhhatttttt????

Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
33200 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:44 pm to
I wouldn't be totally surprised if some of them didn't start leaving to fight for sell swords or something if she doesn't get her shite together, but I don't think the majority of them ever will
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 2:45 pm
Posted by Gugich22
Who Dat Nation
Member since Jan 2006
27813 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

The people in the video I posted discussed that possibility



I just listened to James' 20 minute rant about God knows what....what a loony tune!
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 3:02 pm to
quote:

I just listened to James' 20 minute rant about God knows what....what a loony tune!


That's not even close to some of the rants he's had in the videos of just him and his mom.
Posted by Gugich22
Who Dat Nation
Member since Jan 2006
27813 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 3:55 pm to
From the Hodor thread posted by Epic Cajun:

quote:

If I was Littlefinger, Lysa would "go flying" shortly after I arrived at the Eyrie. Then I'd marry Sansa and live happily ever after.



Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
40361 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

I wouldn't be totally surprised if some of them didn't start leaving to fight for sell swords or something if she doesn't get her shite together, but I don't think the majority of them ever will



they still have a slave mindset no matter how free they'd become
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
134659 posts
Posted on 5/1/14 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

Come on, dude. Even if you are behind the show, don't put ANY non-show information in these threads. For frick's sake.



CocoamoLSU is such a count.
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