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re: I may be on crack, but my thoughts on the WR position....
Posted on 9/3/13 at 9:57 am to clamdip
Posted on 9/3/13 at 9:57 am to clamdip
It may fall under the heading of hypercritical, but you're right about the differences in Landry and Beckham.
Beckham is not a prototypical deep threat, and IMO, doesn't excel at receiving the ball on the move. He has shown great hands on stationary routes, when he can get squared to the ball.
He got stuck reaching and with his hands crossed on the deep drop Sat night, and missed another inside the 10, that would have been a great catch, but the timing and flight of the ball didn't allow him to get squared.
I'm not sure Dural has shown enough yet to be praised as the better option, however. After rewatching the first half last night, his first catch of the game showed good hands, but I consider the end zone pass a drop.
On Beckham's deep drop, if he had adjusted toward the flight of the ball (the center of the field), he could have easily got his right hand on top of the ball without having to reach and attempt to basket it. I will add that I see this a lot on Sundays, too, and great athleticism will compensate.
Also worth mentioning that Beckham probably has the second best hands on the team, but thought I would point out that I get where you're coming from with your observation.
Beckham is not a prototypical deep threat, and IMO, doesn't excel at receiving the ball on the move. He has shown great hands on stationary routes, when he can get squared to the ball.
He got stuck reaching and with his hands crossed on the deep drop Sat night, and missed another inside the 10, that would have been a great catch, but the timing and flight of the ball didn't allow him to get squared.
I'm not sure Dural has shown enough yet to be praised as the better option, however. After rewatching the first half last night, his first catch of the game showed good hands, but I consider the end zone pass a drop.
On Beckham's deep drop, if he had adjusted toward the flight of the ball (the center of the field), he could have easily got his right hand on top of the ball without having to reach and attempt to basket it. I will add that I see this a lot on Sundays, too, and great athleticism will compensate.
Also worth mentioning that Beckham probably has the second best hands on the team, but thought I would point out that I get where you're coming from with your observation.
0
Posted on 9/3/13 at 9:57 am to harry coleman beast
quote:
How are Beckham's stats from saturday random?
Because you wouldn't make the argument based on Dickson's one game that he is the best tight end. Picking one game that doesn't address anything mentioned in the OP is not an argument. Just as it was silly and nonsensical for someone to post Dickson's stats, that was how random you are sometimes.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 9:57 am to Choupique19
Both will make a case for themselves being high NFL draft picks.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 9:58 am to harry coleman beast
BTW, I dig the Sig chance. Count me in on the believer list.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:00 am to NorthTiger
quote:
Do you know how hard it is to catch a football thrown long, while running full speed, with a defender right on you. That is a much easier catch if the defender isn't there and you can make some adjustments. Were they catchable....yes. Were they difficult catches.....yes
The ball that Beckham dropped at the 5 yard line was an easy catch. He dropped it because he was trying to run away from the defender before he caught the ball and therefore the ball went off of his fingertips. He would have just focused on catching the ball, he would have reached the ball easily.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:01 am to therick711
quote:
Because you wouldn't make the argument based on Dickson's one game that he is the best tight end.
No you wouldnt, but you WOULD be able to make the argument that OBJ is one of our best WRs based on the fact that he was the leading receiver from last year AND his stats from Saturday.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:03 am to clamdip
Beckham has a great nose for the ball and attacks it well. He is aggressive in his route running and fights for position. His ability to adjust to the ball and go get it is at least on par with Landry with one caveat:
He has trouble with over the shoulder passes.
This trouble makes him much more of a threat in the short passing game, running cross routes, out routes, hooks, and slants. His speed and route running had him wide open twice down field on what looked like straight jet routes, but he clearly didn't see the ball well despite it being placed right into his hands. He is just flat not a down field receiver.
He is fantastic within fifteen yards of scrimmage and can easily turn a short catch into a big gain. There's a reason he had well over 100 yards receiving.
He has trouble with over the shoulder passes.
This trouble makes him much more of a threat in the short passing game, running cross routes, out routes, hooks, and slants. His speed and route running had him wide open twice down field on what looked like straight jet routes, but he clearly didn't see the ball well despite it being placed right into his hands. He is just flat not a down field receiver.
He is fantastic within fifteen yards of scrimmage and can easily turn a short catch into a big gain. There's a reason he had well over 100 yards receiving.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:03 am to therick711
quote:
Because you wouldn't make the argument based on Dickson's one game that he is the best tight end. Picking one game that doesn't address anything mentioned in the OP is not an argument. Just as it was silly and nonsensical for someone to post Dickson's stats, that was how random you are sometimes.
Link me to where i said OBJ was our best receiver.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:03 am to harry coleman beast
Yea, and at least 3 drops.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:03 am to lsuhunt555
quote:
No you wouldnt, but you WOULD be able to make the argument that OBJ is one of our best WRs based on the fact that he was the leading receiver from last year AND his stats from Saturday.
The criticisms:
quote:
I've watched Beckham for 2+ years now and, while he is very good on special teams, he is below average as a WR with the ball in the air. He just doesn't have the It Factor for playing the ball in the air, adjusting, being aggressive, jockeying for position with the DB, catching at its highest point, etc. And in general he has average hands.
How are his stats without mentioning his drops responsive to any of that? No one denies he is having a lot of difficulty hanging on to the ball. I hope he continues to improve, but just posting stats misses the whole fricking point of the post. Many in the thread have actually made relevant points about how Dural seemed to also struggle catching the ball. There is a difference between making ANY point and making a real, valid, relevant point. Just listing his stats is lazy and stupid, and we're better than that.
This post was edited on 9/3/13 at 10:55 am
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:04 am to therick711
quote:
Listing his stats is lazy and stupid and we're better than that.
The Rant never ceases to amaze me.
ETA: And for the record I dont think OBJ is our "best" but to criticize this guys play making ability is down right ridiculous.
This post was edited on 9/3/13 at 10:06 am
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:05 am to harry coleman beast
quote:
Link me to where i said OBJ was our best receiver.
You didn't. You're just being lazy with your critique of the OP. You know a lot about football so you don't need to be a smartass, especially when it doesn't even respond to what was being leveled about a guy who had a pretty good game on Saturday. Be better. I know you can be, and I want this board to be one where the fans show how knowledgeable they are--not where they repeat rote things that don't combat the point of view being put forward.
/rant
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:06 am to dboyback
quote:
can't teach speed dude...there's a reason odell running those deep route's instead of landry. Landry will have more catches and touchdowns but odell will lead in yards and yards per catch by a mile.
Beckham isn't an exceptionally fast guy. He's a really smooth strider and the routes he runs are great.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:07 am to lsuhunt555
quote:
ETA: And for the record I dont think OBJ is our "best" but to criticize this guys play making ability is down right ridiculous.
I agree if someone is criticizing his playmaking ability, that is pretty silly. His hands need some work and if he can clean that up, no one will be able to say he isn't as good as anyone on LSU's squad. He's real close to just being a monster.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:17 am to clamdip
I think as far as OBJ is concerned, this may be a case of where our (some LSU fans) "eye test" doesn't match the stats.
my first thought was I agree.
thinking about it objectively, I think many times the negatives (e.g. a dropped pass) sticks in the old noggin more than the positives (e.g. 118 yards).
Beckham is doing something right. One change I saw is that he's actually fighting to get open, and doing it more effectively.
my first thought was I agree.
thinking about it objectively, I think many times the negatives (e.g. a dropped pass) sticks in the old noggin more than the positives (e.g. 118 yards).
Beckham is doing something right. One change I saw is that he's actually fighting to get open, and doing it more effectively.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:18 am to therick711
You can be a playmaker without being a great X receiver. That's my point.
No one would doubt that Beckham is a playmaker.
No one would doubt that Beckham is a playmaker.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:19 am to clamdip
quote:
You can be a playmaker without being a great X receiver. That's my point.
Correct. Percy Harvin has made an NFL career out of it and getting hurt all the time.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:22 am to clamdip
I disagree with almost everything you said.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:22 am to Choupique19
quote:I wish it were that easy. It looked like he kept his eyes on the ball he whole way. It just seems that he has trouble catching balls while running. On one of his deep catches you can see that he bailed on the run to catch the ball without obvious interference from the defender.
The ball that Beckham dropped at the 5 yard line was an easy catch. He dropped it because he was trying to run away from the defender before he caught the ball and therefore the ball went off of his fingertips. He would have just focused on catching the ball, he would have reached the ball easily.
But comparing him to Landry, who may be one of the best, if not flashiest, recievers in all of college football may be unfair. OBJ is more of an amazing athlete playing wide receiver. I would like to see Boone getting more targets.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:24 am to I20goon
quote:this is one area where Cam may be a big help to Beckham. We know from Cam's comments that he stresses WR separation as absolutely critical for an offense.
Beckham is doing something right. One change I saw is that he's actually fighting to get open, and doing it more effectively.
I think TCU was a good first opponent in this regard because their secondary was so good and very physical. One could make the case that TCU will wind up being one of the bigger challenges our WRs faced this year. Hope so.
On Dural, I think he could have had that first TD catch, but that DB raked his front arm and was twisting him at the waist. Should have been a flag. Maybe he'll get used to that physical play. I want to see him on some of those long balls.
I forgot to mention another beastly aspect of Jarvis's game: blocking. Dude is just an all-around force.
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