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This is why we can't have nice things (ATC related)

Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:26 am
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83523 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:26 am
I'm sharing this because I feel the need to let as many people know what is going on right now

This shite is utterly ridiculous

Most of the beer nerds have probably already seen this, but not everyone is in the FB beer groups

Posted by Andrew Godley, owner of Parish, regarding the recent controversy surrounding the ATC and our local breweries


quote:

Some additional information to help clarify what Scott Wood posted yesterday. My fellow brewers may not agree with me in that posting this information is a good idea right now, but I am not afraid. Honesty is always the best policy. Honesty is great. If any other local brewer thinks some or all of the information contained herein should be amended or removed, please let me know. I also think it would be great to have the brewers who have had citations or armed ATC agents at the brewery share the truth and facts about what is happening from their view. Without further adieu, here is the truth for anyone in the local beer community to be informed of:

Several brewers from around the state have received citations from the ATC for a slew of "violations" all within the past month or so. Most of these actions that are being deemed illegal by the current ATC administration were ok and allowed under the prior administration. The actual law doesn't cover every single situation, so the agency, the ATC, has the tough job of interpreting the intent of the law in general to fill in the gaps. So before everyone takes up pitchforks and storms BR, just understand that these are people trying to do their jobs and the ATC isn't trying to kill breweries. Now that doesn't mean that there aren't threats to the brewers in our state and doesn't mean that the ATC isn't part of what is going to hurt our industry and stifle growth. And yes, there is a particular brewery that is going to be irreparably damaged by recent ATC interpretations in that a giant portion of their business (that has existed for over 10 years) may very well be viewed as illegal and not allowed now. More on that below, without naming anyone specifically to protect their privacy.

Currently, the ATC has sent a cease and desist letter to every brewer in the state. It basically tells us that we are not allowed to have any outside alcohol (that wasn't produced at the brewery) on the premises. That means no home-brews for a fundraising festival at the brewery (a la Iron Brewer), that means no renting the brewery for a wedding reception and having champagne for the private party, and so on. We are generally ok with that and believe the ATC is interpreting the law correctly here. The other major part of the cease and desist letter has to do with "special events". The law states clearly that brewers cannot have a special event permit. That is not in question. The bigger issue is that the law does not define very well what a special event is, rather what kind of activity requires a special event. It currently states something like anything where the sale or serving of alcohol is incidental to the price of entry or general admission to the event. We all believe that is meant to apply to festivals or events at a location that isn't already permited to serve and sell alcohol. Or some kind of event that is operated in a manner that is very different from the normal operation of an already permited alcohol retailer. Like Festival International or New Orleans on Tap or even the local church fair where they have a beer booth. So the ATC has interpreted that to mean that if a brewery is doing anything other than plain selling beer to you in the brewery, it is making the beer "incidental" therefore it is a special event and not allowed since brewers cannot have a special event permit. So we are "operating without a permit" if a person is at our brewery to do something other than just drink beer. Obviously to everyone in the brewing industry this is an inaccurate stretch of interpretation. To take the definition of the "special event permit" and say that a brewery having a band inside the brewery and advertising the band is considered something that should have an ATC special event permit and therefore illegal is incorrect in our opinion, for example. The issue here is where the line is drawn between legal and illegal. Is a brewery tour legal now? What if we charge for it? What about having the Saints game on the tv in the taproom? What about trivia night? Are these making the beer incidental and therefor illegal since brewers will be having "special events" and operating without a permit?
So as a guild, we have been engaging, respectfully, the ATC to try and really first understand what is legal and illegal in their view. So at least we can operate and not break any laws. We have sent a list of questions to the ATC to cover many different situations that brewers encounter and hopefully we at least see a stop to these unexpected citations and/or fines. Every brewer who received a citation and/or fine or penalty was not intentionally breaking the law, but the ATC has defined them as engaging in illegal activity. This is very troubling. Armed agents show up at the brewery to issue the citations. It is a very confrontational and adversarial way to do things. The brewers are small businesses, with normal Louisiana citizens trying to make a living and contributing positively to the community. The very idea that an armed agent in swat gear will barge into our taproom, full of law-abiding patrons, to issue us a citation for advertising a food truck or band, is frightening to me. This is pretty much what happened at Tin Roof this past weekend, but I can't speak to details, I will let those who witnessed the event chime in. It is especially frightening because I cannot find anywhere in the law where it states that a brewery cannot advertise what food truck is serving food on site or what band is playing. Essentially I, and any other brewery, have no idea what is legal or illegal anymore. We have been told that "brewers are acting too much like retailers" and that isn't the intent of the law. The law allows us to sell a limited amount of beer directly to consumers at the brewery. The manner in which we do that is not written clearly in law, but I don't believe "acting like a retailer" is illegal. The root of a lot of these current issues starts with some retailers or trade groups of retailers complaining to the ATC that brewers are "acting too much like retailers" and essentially taking their business.
This post was edited on 2/10/17 at 11:28 am
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83523 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:26 am to
continued...

quote:

We don't have any of this in writing yet from the ATC, but here is what either leaders of the LACBG or individual brewers have been told verbally by the ATC:
No communication about who is making food, food truck, etc at the brewery is allowed. No communication about what band is playing or who is performing live music is allowed. (All brewers have done this at some point, often. Most is in the form of posting on social media what is going on at the brewery. This means I can't tell you that Dark Roux is coming to make the food for the Grand Reserve Day beer diner at the brewery and I can't tell you that the Rayo Brothers will play at the brewery. I also couldnt tell you that last night we had Mad Luann's food truck at Parish). I have no idea where the law being interpreted here even exists.

We are only allowed to sell/serve beer within the licensed facility, not outside in a courtyard or driveway or parking lot, even if it is still on our property. (We and other brewers have done this quite often over the past several years for big events at the brewery). I don't know that I disagree with the interpretation of the law here, but it puts a damper on things for sure.
No tickets for anything at the brewery. (this means we are probably going to have to cancel Grand Reserve Day. Also means that we may not be able to do the beer dinner for Grand Reserve Day, we wouldn't be allowed to do the fundraiser for flood victims we did last year called Flood Fête). I believe that the interpretation of the law is incorrect.

No partnering with non-profits to draw people to the brewery for events. (This means that we cannot do our annual Barks and Brews fundraiser for a local humane society, where we sell tickets for beer and a large portion of the proceeds goes to the charity. Several animal charities show up and provide fun dog-centric stuff to do. kiddie pools, dog-kissing booths, etc.) I believe the intent here is that the ATC views these "special events" as making the beer "incidental" and therefore requiring a special event permit thus making me a criminal for wanting to donate profit from beer sales to raise money for a charity. I believe this interpretation of the law is incorrect.

Finally, there are many 3-tier violations that the ATC has issues with. These are primarily with brewers making beer for specific retail accounts or using renaming by the retail account to have a "house" beer. For example, local brewery C is making (and has been making for years) "Restaurant Z beer" for sale by Restaurant Z. This may be illegal. Also, Brewery B, makes a beer normally marketed as something different, but it is being used and renamed by Restaurant T as their house beer and they use a different tap handle and call it something different from what the beer actually is registered as and Brewery B is ok with that because it guarantees their beer will be bought by this account, no matter what the beer is sold as to the consumer. These tied house issues can be complicated, but the ATC has issued citations to folks for these kinds of activities. The exclusive outlet protections here are meant to protect choice for consumers, to ensure you don't walk into a retailer and only see one type of beer to choose from. I don't know that I disagree with the ATC interpretation here, but it will affect some brewers dramatically who rely on this kind of business.

Be kind to one another, but also stand up for what is right. We are going to be respectfully engaging the ATC and other industry members (retailers and distributors) to get resolution to all of this over the next few months. We need your support, please do not be afraid to let your local legislators know that you support the growth of local brewers and they are currently under attack.

Cheers y'all and thanks for the support.
Posted by BlackCoffeeKid
Member since Mar 2016
11697 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:30 am to
Request: TLDR
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83523 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:31 am to
No. Read it all. It's important.
Posted by CBandits82
Lurker since May 2008
Member since May 2012
54026 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:34 am to
fricking bullshite and ridiculous.

Unreal.
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
102973 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:39 am to
This is the shite worth rioting in the streets over.
Posted by tigerfootball10
Member since Sep 2005
9493 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:41 am to
quote:

This is why we can't have nice things

ANSWER: The Good Ole Boy Network
Posted by PapaPogey
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2008
39421 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:42 am to
Wow that's hilarious how much bullshite that is. frick the ATC

Thanks for sharing
This post was edited on 2/10/17 at 11:45 am
Posted by TigerRob20
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2008
3732 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:43 am to
Is this happening across the state (NOLA, Shreveport, etc) or just to specific breweries?

Posted by BlackCoffeeKid
Member since Mar 2016
11697 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:44 am to
quote:

No. Read it all. It's important.


Thanks for that. Eye-opening.
Posted by LSUrme
CTC
Member since Oct 2005
5335 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:44 am to
Good God.
Posted by USEyourCURDS
Member since Apr 2016
12059 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:45 am to
No GRD? Alright so which legislator(s) do I need to email/call?
Posted by DVA Tailgater
Bunkie
Member since Jan 2011
2923 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:47 am to
Unbelievable.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73674 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:51 am to
I thought the NCAA was hard to figure out
Posted by TigerRob20
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2008
3732 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:53 am to
I'd email your local legislators to start with.

New Commissioner:

LINK

And good god, check out the landing page for their site:

LINK

Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
101915 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:55 am to
Not much really pisses me off... but the ATC lately has really pissed me off.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
101293 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 11:57 am to
quote:

. We have been told that "brewers are acting too much like retailers"


Oh the fricking horror!



Screw this freaking state up, down, backwards and to next Tuesday.
Posted by TigerWise
Front Seat of an Uber
Member since Sep 2010
35113 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 12:00 pm to
quote:

The root of a lot of these current issues starts with some retailers or trade groups of retailers complaining to the ATC that brewers are "acting too much like retailers" and essentially taking their business.


Pvenue Aub
Posted by rutiger
purgatory
Member since Jun 2007
21103 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

quote:
. We have been told that "brewers are acting too much like retailers"



The law states they can sell up to 10% of their production at the brewery, so how else do you sell beer without "acting like a retailer"?

I tend to wonder how much of a push the distributors and their lobbyists are placing on this situation, im sure they're pissed they are missing their cut.
Posted by gmrkr5
NC
Member since Jul 2009
14886 posts
Posted on 2/10/17 at 12:05 pm to
this is some bullshite
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