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re: So I see the FSU Spring Game on ESPN and realize....
Posted on 6/25/14 at 10:40 pm to thesoccerfanjax
Posted on 6/25/14 at 10:40 pm to thesoccerfanjax
our two best players aren't that athletic
Dempsey and Bradley
Dempsey and Bradley
1
Posted on 6/25/14 at 11:27 pm to mytigger
Too bad players like Tony Parker didn't try to take up soccer when they were younger
Don't project athleticism gained through years of training for the athleticism required for American sports onto playing soccer. Even specimens like Ronaldo looked like twigs at 18
Could we do better at soccer if we poured all of our resources into it? Absolutely. Would we dominate? It depends. You can only place eleven players on the field. Brazil populates the worlds' domestic leagues, but their squad isn't above and beyond all others. Transcendental talents like Ronaldinho take a little something else
ETA: And I know that the stereotype of Brazil's excellent players is fun, but that type of ability is carefully cultured. It's not something you just have. They spend an enormous amount of time working towards it
quote:
6'3" 210 lb athletes run and jump all over the field
Don't project athleticism gained through years of training for the athleticism required for American sports onto playing soccer. Even specimens like Ronaldo looked like twigs at 18
Could we do better at soccer if we poured all of our resources into it? Absolutely. Would we dominate? It depends. You can only place eleven players on the field. Brazil populates the worlds' domestic leagues, but their squad isn't above and beyond all others. Transcendental talents like Ronaldinho take a little something else
ETA: And I know that the stereotype of Brazil's excellent players is fun, but that type of ability is carefully cultured. It's not something you just have. They spend an enormous amount of time working towards it
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 6/25/14 at 11:28 pm to fightingtigers98
Bradley especially isn't any type of person normal people would call unathletic
Posted on 6/25/14 at 11:36 pm to thesoccerfanjax
You soccer fans have taken one too many headers. If every street corner in this urban areas of the USA had soccer goals instead of basketball goals, we'd have a few World Cup titles. Are you telling me that athleticism doesn't help when it comes to heading the ball? Racing an opponent to a free ball? Etc?
Posted on 6/25/14 at 11:57 pm to Choupique19
I mean, sure. We do sports well. It's just ridiculously difficult to translate athleticism from American sports directly to soccer, so it's pointless to even talk about, and it's insulting to talk about when players on our team are underrated athletically and have already beaten out players with the same athleticism that people are clamoring for.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 6/26/14 at 12:10 am to joey barton
Exactly. Roberto Martinez has said on ESPN that the USMNT is the fittest and most athletic in the tournament.
The difference in the top teams is their skill - and I'm not figuring coaching or money or resources into this - just the talent of the players.
Pure athleticism doesn't translate from sport to sport, hell, not even within sports. The most athletic RB couldn't be trained to be a great QB because to play QB there is an inherent skillset needed. A catcher can't be made a pitcher, etc.
Occhocinco tried out for Sporting KC and couldn't make the cut.
Look at Michael Jordan trying baseball.
Obviously because of sheer numbers, if all our athletic kids played soccer we could find more players but it's not just as easy as the OP makes it sound.
I was a fairly good soccer player in HS - got some looks from some small colleges - but I couldn't play softball or volleyball to save my life. I have terrible hand eye coordination.
Throw a soccer ball at my hands and I am very awkward trying to catch it.
Throw it at my feet and I can still juggle the ball 20 or more times without losing control.
The difference in the top teams is their skill - and I'm not figuring coaching or money or resources into this - just the talent of the players.
Pure athleticism doesn't translate from sport to sport, hell, not even within sports. The most athletic RB couldn't be trained to be a great QB because to play QB there is an inherent skillset needed. A catcher can't be made a pitcher, etc.
Occhocinco tried out for Sporting KC and couldn't make the cut.
Look at Michael Jordan trying baseball.
Obviously because of sheer numbers, if all our athletic kids played soccer we could find more players but it's not just as easy as the OP makes it sound.
I was a fairly good soccer player in HS - got some looks from some small colleges - but I couldn't play softball or volleyball to save my life. I have terrible hand eye coordination.
Throw a soccer ball at my hands and I am very awkward trying to catch it.
Throw it at my feet and I can still juggle the ball 20 or more times without losing control.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:12 am to BamaChick
eh. yes and no. I get your point that it takes more coordination and skill than just pure athleticism to play the beautiful game but lets not be naive; if the USMNT was made up of the greatest players from a spectrum of american sports who have all been playing the game from a young age and have given the technical training that most youth academies provide in places like Britain, and Germany, that they would not be a major, major factor in world soccer, then there is nothing else to say because nothing will convince you.
if we dedicated 1/3 of our best athletes from the onset of their full athletic careers to football, they would be world class players.
but athleticism isn't everything as everyone has mentioned. for arguments sake, lets say that technical training is level across the board from your major european youth academies:
our athletes > their athletes. plain and simple.
if soccer dominated here like it does there, it would be NFL type money in these clubs and academies. they would be world class.
so if all things being equal, then of course we would be on par or better because again, our athletes > their athletes.
well past his athletic prime and do you know how hard it would be for a major athlete to just drop everything and play another sport at the highest level?
again you really expect a player to just drop everything and excel at another major sport?
someone mentions kobe again but it would be argued that athleticism isnt what makes kobe a great basketball player, it's his work ethic.
if you really wanted to see just an athletic marvel excel at multiple major sports look at someone like Bo Jackson. Bo played both sports and excelled at the because he was one: athletic, and two: played them both his entire life at a highly competitive level and trained for both.
i've seen personally so many athletes play soccer their entire lives and be fantastic at them, but when it gets to a time to focus on one sport, for the most gifted, it's pick football or baseball or basketball because in this country, right now, that is what pays. period.
if we dedicated 1/3 of our best athletes from the onset of their full athletic careers to football, they would be world class players.
but athleticism isn't everything as everyone has mentioned. for arguments sake, lets say that technical training is level across the board from your major european youth academies:
our athletes > their athletes. plain and simple.
if soccer dominated here like it does there, it would be NFL type money in these clubs and academies. they would be world class.
so if all things being equal, then of course we would be on par or better because again, our athletes > their athletes.
quote:
Occhocinco tried out for Sporting KC and couldn't make the cut.
well past his athletic prime and do you know how hard it would be for a major athlete to just drop everything and play another sport at the highest level?
quote:
Look at Michael Jordan trying baseball.
again you really expect a player to just drop everything and excel at another major sport?
someone mentions kobe again but it would be argued that athleticism isnt what makes kobe a great basketball player, it's his work ethic.
if you really wanted to see just an athletic marvel excel at multiple major sports look at someone like Bo Jackson. Bo played both sports and excelled at the because he was one: athletic, and two: played them both his entire life at a highly competitive level and trained for both.
i've seen personally so many athletes play soccer their entire lives and be fantastic at them, but when it gets to a time to focus on one sport, for the most gifted, it's pick football or baseball or basketball because in this country, right now, that is what pays. period.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 1:23 am to BamaChick
While pure athleticism is a thing, I don't think that it's something that can be easily measured, because you can improve basically everything that people try to measure it by (technically and physically). It works its way into places people don't expect it, too. No matter how many times someone is born, they almost assuredly aren't going to have the technique of someone like Zidane, all things held equal.
Beyond the ridiculous technical work and absolutely insane tactical understanding it takes to play soccer well at a high level, there's really no easy physical parallel to make to American sports, so almost everyone popular is going to look dramatically different physically had they actually grown up playing soccer. As you said, all sports have physical ranges that are seen as ideal. Soccer is no better or different. There are plenty of successful players who were told they were too small, for example.
Ultimately, while it would be cool to see what someone like Rajon Rondo would have looked like if he played soccer, it's a pointless thought exercise, soccer fans here get tired of it, and judging people solely on their physical abilities is something that people get tired of everywhere, too, e.g., every NFL draft there are tons of people surprised at "x" player's combine performance because "x" player actually looks like he can play football when actually playing football.
Beyond the ridiculous technical work and absolutely insane tactical understanding it takes to play soccer well at a high level, there's really no easy physical parallel to make to American sports, so almost everyone popular is going to look dramatically different physically had they actually grown up playing soccer. As you said, all sports have physical ranges that are seen as ideal. Soccer is no better or different. There are plenty of successful players who were told they were too small, for example.
Ultimately, while it would be cool to see what someone like Rajon Rondo would have looked like if he played soccer, it's a pointless thought exercise, soccer fans here get tired of it, and judging people solely on their physical abilities is something that people get tired of everywhere, too, e.g., every NFL draft there are tons of people surprised at "x" player's combine performance because "x" player actually looks like he can play football when actually playing football.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 2:12 am to Alan Garner
This guy Alan Garner gets it. No one is saying Calvin Johnson would be a great soccer player.
What we're saying is if our best athletes - physically and mentally, I'm talking from Russell Westbrook to Drew Brees, played and developed their natural talent in to the sport of soccer from an early age (much like they did with basketball and football respectively) that we would have an amazing national team.
Of course if Johnny Manziel tried to play soccer right now he would be awful. But if he used his natural athleticism and talents for soccer as an early child and on - odds are he would be pretty great.
It's all about the sport you focus on early. The argument is simply that our soccer team gets the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th helpings of athletes in this nation. If you believe otherwise you are just delusional.
What we're saying is if our best athletes - physically and mentally, I'm talking from Russell Westbrook to Drew Brees, played and developed their natural talent in to the sport of soccer from an early age (much like they did with basketball and football respectively) that we would have an amazing national team.
Of course if Johnny Manziel tried to play soccer right now he would be awful. But if he used his natural athleticism and talents for soccer as an early child and on - odds are he would be pretty great.
It's all about the sport you focus on early. The argument is simply that our soccer team gets the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th helpings of athletes in this nation. If you believe otherwise you are just delusional.
This post was edited on 6/26/14 at 2:24 am
Posted on 6/26/14 at 7:33 am to mytigger
I wish LSU had men's soccer and that OBJ could have somehow played both futbol and football
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