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re: RONALDO appreciation thread!
Posted on 2/17/18 at 8:03 am to Mr Personality
Posted on 2/17/18 at 8:03 am to Mr Personality
quote:
Portugal's Euro win was one of the biggest flukes of all time and Bitchnaldo didn't even make it to halftime. After they drew their way to the knockout round.
Yeah ok.
1
Posted on 2/17/18 at 1:51 pm to BengalShark
quote:
Bitchnaldo
He loses all credibility with this type of bullshite.
You can not like ronaldo or messi but to try and act like they aren't two of the greatest EVER is just foolish
Soccer without these two wp plant be anywhere near where it is imo and we are all lucky to be able to watch these two battle it out in their primes.
This post was edited on 2/17/18 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 2/17/18 at 2:31 pm to crazy4lsu
There's nothing asinine about it. Madrid has played in 7 straight semi finals. Ronaldo has delivered in the bulk of those compared to Messi getting shut out by Chelsea, Juventus, Inter Milan, Bayern & Atletico.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 3:00 pm to jrtplaya21
We can argue all day about who is better. They are at the same level if you ask me. Ronaldo is on his best run of his career right now. Messi had his run before that. It comes down to personal preference. I rather Messi because I just prefer his playing style and personality more. Both are all time greats playing at the same time. Just imagine Pele and Maradona both playing at the same time during their peak years. That's what this basically is.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 3:01 pm to BengalShark
quote:
whether he’s on Man U, Portugal, Or Real Madrid
This has only been true at certain points. Even the Euro title he was average for the majority of the tournament and he didn't even play most of the Final.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 3:53 pm to jackwoods4
quote:
This has only been true at certain points. Even the Euro title he was average for the majority of the tournament and he didn't even play most of the Final.
I think this recent CL run has given a false impression that teams that Ronaldo was on never struggled. Portugal had to adopt an entirely different identity after their poor play in WC 2014 where they didn't get out of the group stage. Why that is not held against Ronaldo, but somehow Messi's WC run the same tournament is, is fairly confusing. I suspect that many of these people didn't watch Messi during the early part of this decade or for some reason underrate his performance in Spain. I mean, Barcelona is currently undefeated in La Liga, where Messi has scored 20 goals and 11 assists in 22 games, leading the league in both categories. Ronaldo scoring 4 goals in 2 games against APOEL in the CL is somehow a higher standard than La Liga. The logic on display is utterly inconsistent.
This post was edited on 2/17/18 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:01 pm to crazy4lsu
It's not held against Ronaldo because he didn't come into the tournament healthy at all. And you point out Apoel like he hasn't also been scoring on Dortmund, Tottenham & now PSG. Not exactly tiny clubs. Messi's run is held against him because of the standard most hold him to. He was falsely named player of the tournament over James & didn't turn up for the biggest game of his life.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:16 pm to WHATDOINO
quote:
He loses all credibility with this type of bullshite. You can not like ronaldo or messi but to try and act like they aren't two of the greatest EVER is just foolish
Lmao. So because I called him Bitchnaldo, you make the giant leap that I don't think he's a great player?
I know you like Ronaldo's cock in your mouth, but don't put words in mine.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:29 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
It's not held against Ronaldo because he didn't come into the tournament healthy at all.
Neither did Messi. Messi had abductor, hamstring and calf problems that season, and tore his calf around the end of 2013. If you watched him all tournament, you could tell he lacked the same sort of explosiveness. He moved gingerly all game, and was frequently a non-factor defensively. His output that season was his lowest from 2009 to that point. Why Ronaldo gets a pass, and Messi doesn't in this respect is very odd.
quote:
Messi's run is held against him because of the standard most hold him to.
This is arbitrary and stupid.
quote:
He was falsely named player of the tournament over James & didn't turn up for the biggest game of his life.
Why wasn't James named in the top three for the Golden Ball? Muller won the Silver Ball while Robben won the Bronze Ball, while James won the Golden Boot. I'd advised you to go watch that tournament again. Sites like whoscored.com listed Messi's player rating as the highest of the tournament. Messi played super well. He averaged 6.6 completed dribbles per game, which if you know anything about that stat, is usually around 3.5 dribbles per game for elite players. Messi usually averages 3 dribbles per game in both league play and UCL. His dribbling stats were 1.1 higher than the next closest player. He also had 3.3 key passes per game, which was fifth highest, and he was the highest ranking forward in that regard. Without you watching those games again and seeing how well he actually played, and how much he lacked his usual explosiveness, I can't do anything other than quote these metrics to at least state the case that Messi was among the best players in that tournament, despite losing the final, and despite not being 100%.
This post was edited on 2/17/18 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:45 pm to crazy4lsu
I'd imagine James didn't win the golden ball because Brazil knocked them out while Holland & Germany advanced further. Wouldn't have really been the sexy pick. And is this how we measure players by now? Completed dribbles? I'd imagine Messi hit those heights because he was up against the all world defenses of Iran, Bosnia, Nigeria & Switzerland.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:53 pm to TFTC
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:54 pm to TFTC
quote:
I don't like C Ronaldo, but realize he's a great player...
I think Ronaldo is literally the perfect wide forward. He's been in the era of some superb ones like Ribery, Robben, and Neymar, among others.
quote:
I dont see CR do this often or ever really..
Because CR requires service, and lots of it. Not that it is a bad thing. He times his runs, gets free of markers, and is an unbelievable finisher. If you pair him with the right midfield, as Madrid have done with that wonderful duo of Kroos and Modric, he's going to score lots of goals. But it's rare that you see him deep in midfield, playing out of the back, picking passes, playing 1-2's, or delivering final balls. He probably does have that ability, but his strengths are running without the ball and exploiting even a yard of open space.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:55 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
Completed dribbles?
It's a solid metric. I also misquoted his average dribbles in his career, which is around 5.5. It's literally just a metric to see how many times a player completes a dribbler. South American players tend to have higher dribbling stats than Europeans, but Messi is on another level in that regard. Key passes, tackles, interceptions, etc, are all metrics to use to discuss players. That you don't find his dribbling stats noteworthy is interesting enough. And again, without you actually watching that tournament again, and actually seeing how influential Messi was, despite his injury, then I don't know how to convince you that his prize as Golden Boot winner wasn't undeserved.
I mean, I'm very skeptical that you watched that tournament at all, given that you were unaware that Messi wasn't 100%, and that you seem to be discounting his performances during that tournament, which were superb. If Higuain or Aguero show up that tournament, Argentina might have won. Both were utterly terrible, as was Lavezzi.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 4:56 pm to jrtplaya21
touche'.. but I didnt have to go back almost 7 years to find the one above.. t hat was a few hours ago..
Posted on 2/17/18 at 5:03 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
LINK
Did you watch it? that was full of lay offs, crosses, corner kicks and one muffed bicycle kick that fell to Morata
Granted.. there were a few nice ones in there..
Posted on 2/17/18 at 5:04 pm to crazy4lsu
I watched the entire tournament. And I've watched Messi's entire career. The man's a genius. I just wanted to argue with you for the sake of argument ha. And I'm not alone in thinking that Messi didn't deserve that golden ball. I know all about completed dribbles. But I just don't really look at that when rating a player. It's like people that use WAR for basketball to rate a player. Eye test is more than good enough. Nobody is gonna sit back & think man that Zidane or Cruyff was amazing. But boy those completed dribbles & miles ran during the match put them in a whole different stratosphere.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 5:05 pm to TFTC
Yeah I did. Ronaldo has a ton of career assist but I'd say more were hey I'm trying to score & it just happened to go to my teammate
Posted on 2/17/18 at 5:16 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
And I'm not alone in thinking that Messi didn't deserve that golden ball.
I disagree. He carried Argentina by himself that tournament. He was fantastic.
quote:
But I just don't really look at that when rating a player.
It's a reactive measure used to see trends over the course of a game and season that are usually missed during games themselves. Without actually watching each game and pointing out specific things that Messi did each game to carry his team forward, it's a convenient way to talk about players.
quote:
It's like people that use WAR for basketball to rate a player.
It's a much simpler stat than WAR. It's literally a description of how many dribbles a player completes a game. Usually players who are good dribblers have high dribbling stats. Many players with high dribbling stats do not have the ability to make an end product though, which is why it's not a predictive measure. A predictive measure would say players with certain stats doing a specific thing should produce a certain number of goals/points or whatever. This is what separates this stat from other ones, because it doesn't predict anything. Again, it's a description of dribbling ability after the fact. Which is where it is different from stats in American sports which tend to combine multiple percentages.
quote:
But boy those completed dribbles & miles ran during the match put them in a whole different stratosphere.
Usually I use it to paint a complete picture of a player, since having the full match available isn't possible, and I can't point to specific moments of brilliance like I can as they happen. In this sense we see Messi's dribbling ability, and the numbers confirm what we see, which is Messi is a dribbler who is some degrees better than anyone else, considering his performance during WC 2014 indicated that he completed 1 more dribble per game than the next closest player.
Posted on 2/17/18 at 6:11 pm to crazy4lsu
no one loves Ronaldo as much as he does
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