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re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:14 pm to Friend of OBUDan
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:14 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
Sun
SMGDH
1
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:17 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
SMGDH
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:21 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
I don't think he has a good enough first touch to play CF
Well his first touch is really inconsistent. Sometimes he can take a ball down like a Spaniard, and other times he's like Gervinho on Sunday. I think the problem is that he's essentially a poacher who wouldn't be able to add very much to the build-up of attacks, which we require of our CF. But if we ever go to the 4-4-2, which we seem to be leaning more towards lately, he's an excellent partner for Podolski or Giroud.
Honestly, I don't think he's any worse than a player like Jermain Defoe. In fact, I think his movement is far more intelligent.
His movement the last two years off the ball has been superb. He actually wants to get on the ends of moves, unlike virtually all of our other players who want to face the game head on, with the ball at their feet. Even Ox and Gervinho have this infuriating tendency. Theo knows his limitations and his strengths, which are having the ball played into space for him to run onto, which mitigates his first touch.
I want him to stay because he is a player who is unlike any other player in the league. Part of the reason he wants to play CF is that it mitigates his defensive responsibilities.
So let's imagine some possibilities for Theo.
A front three with Podolski/Gervinho/Ox/Ramsey/Rosicky wide. Theo through the middle. This would be a fluid attack and would put lots of pressure on the CB's not to be drawn upfield.
Theo as a lone striker with Cazorla behind him. With Santi's penchant for the pass, this could be absolutely deadly. I think it could be similar to this move at :27. LINK
That's absolutely brilliant movement from Walcott. Fabregas provides the pass, but Walcott's movement is very poacher-esque.
Theo and Giroud/Podolski in a 4-4-2. This would get the best out of Theo and Giroud I think. Think back to the game versus Slavia Prague in 2006 or 07. Theo combined with Adebayor wonderfully, and we absolutely destroyed a CL, albeit completely inferior team.
Against big teams who will press us high up the field, he can be deadly. I see very little wrong with resigning him and moving him centrally. I'd want to sign a winger, or promote Ryo. Also I have a strong feeling that Wilshere can play wide if we need him to.
This post was edited on 9/24/12 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:33 pm to crazy4lsu
Theo problem is he wants too much money. Take what you deserve Theo or see ya. He has talent but is too inconsistent for us to give him 100k. That would be ridiculous.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:34 pm to crazy4lsu
Great post, I could see Gervinho playing the middle
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:40 pm to crazy4lsu
Well Wilshere came through our ranks playing on the right, didn't he? That's where I always remember watching him in Reserve matches and in Carling Cup outings.
I guess my concern is clearly our coaching staff don't think he can succeed at CF. There's been boatloads of chances for him to play as a central striker over the past 3 years but we've never given him a run out there. Even before this whole contract dispute arose, Gervinho was getting more practice time through the center than Theo. For me, because of his first touch and his dribbling ability (which, at least theoretically, allows him to hold the ball up more efficiently), Gervinho is better through the middle than Theo. And while his finishing was woeful yesterday, the early results there are positive. I guess I'd just need to see Theo there before I really judged him though.
And while he has poacher-esque movement, he hasn't exactly been guilt-edged in taking his chances, though that's indicative of our entire team it seems.
I think our issue, and one which I don't think Theo will help us with whether it's on the wing or through the middle, is breaking down teams that play deep. In an open game, with Theo, Gervinho, Podolski, Cazorla, etc. we will carve out plenty of opportunities. But when a team defends deep like MCFC yesterday in the second half, we still have trouble breaking through. And that's a problem from recent years we haven't exactly figured out.
I do agree though, I think we need to hold on to Theo and I think freezing him out like we are is probably a bad idea. He is a very useful weapon.
I guess my concern is clearly our coaching staff don't think he can succeed at CF. There's been boatloads of chances for him to play as a central striker over the past 3 years but we've never given him a run out there. Even before this whole contract dispute arose, Gervinho was getting more practice time through the center than Theo. For me, because of his first touch and his dribbling ability (which, at least theoretically, allows him to hold the ball up more efficiently), Gervinho is better through the middle than Theo. And while his finishing was woeful yesterday, the early results there are positive. I guess I'd just need to see Theo there before I really judged him though.
And while he has poacher-esque movement, he hasn't exactly been guilt-edged in taking his chances, though that's indicative of our entire team it seems.
I think our issue, and one which I don't think Theo will help us with whether it's on the wing or through the middle, is breaking down teams that play deep. In an open game, with Theo, Gervinho, Podolski, Cazorla, etc. we will carve out plenty of opportunities. But when a team defends deep like MCFC yesterday in the second half, we still have trouble breaking through. And that's a problem from recent years we haven't exactly figured out.
I do agree though, I think we need to hold on to Theo and I think freezing him out like we are is probably a bad idea. He is a very useful weapon.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:41 pm to DB10_AFC
Check the last page, the issue isn't money.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:44 pm to DB10_AFC
quote:
Theo problem is he wants too much money. Take what you deserve Theo or see ya. He has talent but is too inconsistent for us to give him 100k. That would be ridiculous.
I wouldn't want to pay him that much, but if we are to compete long term, we might have to raise our wage ceiling. I don't think we will pay him 100k, but paying him 80k would be fine.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:44 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Honestly, I don't think he's any worse than a player like Jermain Defoe.
Pretty unfair to Defoe. He is a natural goal scorer, something Walcott isn't. One of the more important aspects of playing CF.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:46 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:Ok. Theo is just not good enough. I'm sorry.
Check the last page, the issue isn't money.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:50 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
I guess my concern is clearly our coaching staff don't think he can succeed at CF.
At the same time, Wenger has always said Theo was a CF, and that his time on the RW was for him to learn. And to be honest, Gervinho isn't really playing centrally in a traditional way. With him we're really playing a fluid style, and I really think Wenger was inspired by Spain's 4-6-0 this summer (as he was inspired by Spain's 4-2-3-1 after the 2010 WC). I think Theo could work centrally, but he'd have to be a Michael Owen-esque player who is never involved in the buildup to goals.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:54 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:He sure has had plenty of time to learn. There has to be a reason Wenger hasn't played Walcott at ST yet. My guess is he doesn't believe Theo has it in him.
Wenger has always said Theo was a CF, and that his time on the RW was for him to learn.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:02 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
he'd have to be a Michael Owen-esque player
Then he'll have no problem leaving Arsenal.
Aside from the pace, I don't see many similarities between them.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:02 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Pretty unfair to Defoe. He is a natural goal scorer, something Walcott isn't. One of the more important aspects of playing CF.
I think Walcott and Defoe would have similar production if Walcott played centrally more consistently. I think Defoe is pretty average off-the-ball, and his movement isn't brilliant. He can score, but he has hardly been consistent throughout his career. To say that they are equal (as in Defoe being a top four team type of player) isn't too much of a stretch.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:03 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
At the same time, Wenger has always said Theo was a CF, and that his time on the RW was for him to learn
Yeah, I guess that was kind of my point. I don't know whether or not the coaches actually think that, but I was interpreting their actions. They've said the same thing since we signed him, yet here we are many years later and he hasn't gotten a chance.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:07 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Aside from the pace, I don't see many similarities between them.
Aside from pace, I see very few redeeming qualities about Owen in general. His game went downhill quickly once he lost his legs, and it will probably work out the same for Theo.
Again, I'm only referring to the ability to link play, which Owen has never really done at a high level. He's always been a poacher, which is where I think Theo projects at.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:12 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I think Walcott and Defoe would have similar production if Walcott played centrally more consistently.
Maybe. I've never seen the killer instinct required to play CF from Theo though.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:15 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
I've never seen the killer instinct required to play CF from Theo though.
Exactly. Walcott lacks that striker's mentality. And he is so weak and is pushed off the ball way to easily.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:16 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Aside from pace, I see very few redeeming qualities about Owen in general.
Fantastic movement, clinical and natural scorer. Performed at a very high level for several years with an average surrounding cast.
quote:
His game went downhill quickly once he lost his legs, and it will probably work out the same for Theo.
Well that had little to do with natural quality or ability. Like Walcott, Owen played so many games at such a high level in his teenage years at a very taxing position. It's why I'm so cautious with Sterling. Owen's career virtually ended at 25.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:16 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Maybe. I've never seen the killer instinct required to play CF from Theo though.
While true, I'd say his finishing is his best attribute. When he's confident, he can finish pretty well.
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