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re: Why would Putin let North Korean troops fight in Ukraine

Posted on 11/7/24 at 8:02 pm to
Posted by Jack Carter
Member since Sep 2018
12200 posts
Posted on 11/7/24 at 8:02 pm to
Posted by MizzouBS
Missouri
Member since Dec 2014
6883 posts
Posted on 11/7/24 at 8:14 pm to
A few articles. You can believe or you decide not to
quote:

"The first military personnel of the DPRK [Democratic People's Republic of Korea] have already come under fire in the Kursk region of the Russian Federation," said Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation head Andriy Kovalenko on Monday, referring to North Korea.


Independent

quote:

Ukrainian troops engaged with North Korean units for first time in Russia, official says

PBS

Jack Carter
quote:

Can you post that article?

quote:

North Korean troops 'gun down their own Russian comrades after shooting in the wrong direction'

Daily Mail

quote:

Austin Confirms North Korea Has Sent Troops to Russia

Defense.gov
quote:

What does North Korea get out of sending its soldiers to fight Russia's war?

NBC
This post was edited on 11/7/24 at 8:26 pm
Posted by Jack Carter
Member since Sep 2018
12200 posts
Posted on 11/7/24 at 8:49 pm to
quote:

Repeat them as facts? I'm simply saying that is the source of the claim is a statement by the SK Defense Ministry. 


I apologize to you. I thought you were the poster I was initially responding to.

quote:

The Pentagon says it is 10000 and a Ukrainian source says it is 1500.


The problem is that these are probably just NK troops training but there is a coordinated effirt to make us believe, without evidence, that these troops are on the battle field. They use deceptive language and unreliable sources. It's the same blueprint over and over again to build a narrative that leads to further escalation. I'm not saying you fall for it, but clearly so many here do and that's alarming.


quote:

All the videos we have are grainy. But there are videos of troops training, videos of troops getting equipment and videos of Russians interacting with NK troops.



The main video being passed around is a video of Laos troops acvording to google translate.

Many countries send troops to Russia for training exercises. If these are Laos troops, then how did that video become so widespread in the media? Who pushed this video? Who created this narrative? Why is it escalating without any actual evidence?

quote:

There is no independent verification at the moment


Google translate should be considered here. The video of North Koreans going viral which is being used to build a greater narrative is shown to be Laos troops.

quote:

Why would the SK president make a statement on North Korean involvement in Ukraine when he was in Warsaw to finalize the K2 tank deal with Poland? It's not the pattern in international relations to make meaningless statements during talks about other matters.


Sounds convincing when they make declarations in that format, doesn't it? They don't have to be specific either, just use deceptive language to insinuate that North Koreans training in Russia = North Koreans fighting on the don't lines.

The media will bring up the Kursk front, an unnamed official will say North Koreans were destroyed on the battlefield, a grainy video of troops arming up in a hangar, various entities screaming "this is an escalation!" And suddenly it becomes true enough for the masses here (not referring to you)



Posted by Jack Carter
Member since Sep 2018
12200 posts
Posted on 11/7/24 at 9:06 pm to
quote:

said Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation


Seriously bro? This is The Ministry of Truth in Ukraine.

quote:

official says


Nope. Meaningless.


quote:

North Korean troops 'gun down their own Russian comrades after shooting in the wrong direction'


Sounds more plausible than "sources say" and "the ministry of truth said", but a captured prisoners confession has to be taken with a grain of salt. They will say whatever they are told to say. The Russians do this as well.


quote:

Austin Confirms North Korea Has Sent Troops to Russia


For training as many countries do. The headline is used to build the narrative. The more they push the narrative with "sources" and "the Ukrainian Disinformation Center" and public officials implying that North Koreans are fighting on the front lines, the more people will start to believe that narrative without any actual proof. Just like how the narrative was pushed that Iraq had WMDs

Some things never change

quote:

A few articles. You can believe or you decide not to


I don't believe it. I want actual evidence. Something as major as this must be backed by undeniable evidence.

How about you, do you believe it? Do you believe it enough to support an escalation?

This post was edited on 11/7/24 at 9:15 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 11/7/24 at 9:55 pm to
quote:

The main video being passed around is a video of Laos troops acvording to google translate.


The one on Telegram of soldiers entering a barracks? There were three videos that I saw that said these were NK troops. One was in the barracks getting equipment, one was what appeared to be troops training and another with a Russian interacting with a NK soldier. And to be fair, the last one I can't seem to find any more. They could be videos of anything, of course, and I didn't study them to see if they were what they said they were. I'm just describing the evidence as I saw it.

quote:

Sounds convincing when they make declarations in that format, doesn't it? They don't have to be specific either, just use deceptive language to insinuate that North Koreans training in Russia = North Koreans fighting on the don't lines.



I don't think that is the insinuation. Here is Yoon's quote at the press conference with the Polish President:

quote:

"We agreed that North Korea's dispatch of troops to Russia is a direct violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions and the U.N. Charter and is a provocation that goes beyond the Korean Peninsula and Europe to threaten global security," 


That statement is broad enough to include training situations, which is well within the purview of what SK would consider threatening, as NK issues similar statements when the US and SK take part in joint drills. The setting of the statement suggests that this took place as a summary of what was discussed at the meeting between Yoon and Duda, with the overt purpose being to finalize the newly minted relations between SK and Poland on military technology.

It is also true that SK-Polish relations also play a part in relations between NK and Russia, and thus it isn’t necessarily a surprise that the subject was broached during the meeting. Both SK and NK have a very low threshold for what they consider an escalation, and the diplomatic language between the two is really explicit in diplomatic terms. Here is an example: LINK

The escalation angle is less meaningful within the context of NK-SK relations for those reasons.

quote:

And suddenly it becomes true enough for the masses here


Its okay to take a wait and see approach to what is happening. There are almost certainly the advisors and attaches from several countries both involved and not involved in the conflict on both sides. But that's just the pattern of post WW-II warfare, where every conflict has global potential when other states use these conflicts to compete with one another. Countries generally notice when combatants formally invite other powers, such as when Syria formally invited Russia to help them in the SCW. That would be the real escalation, in strictly diplomatic terms.
Posted by MizzouBS
Missouri
Member since Dec 2014
6883 posts
Posted on 11/8/24 at 1:42 am to
quote:

How about you, do you believe it? Do you believe it enough to support an escalation?


Yeah. You shouldn’t be surprised by anything that Putin or Kim Jung Un would do.

What kind of evidence do you need

NK in Russian uniforms
LINK

NK in Russian uniforms in Kursk
LINK

You don’t have to believe it right now. In few weeks you will have even more evidence you won’t believe.

Koreans and Russians(Soviet Union) have been allies since the Korean War.
Posted by Florida_Man1981
Member since Jan 2024
541 posts
Posted on 11/8/24 at 1:54 am to
Because the Russian way of war isn't strategic it's just attrition with no regard to casualties.
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