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re: Satanic Temple puts up display at Michigan Capital
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:01 pm to Superior Pariah
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:01 pm to Superior Pariah
The creation itself and all it's complexity, vastness and mystery speaks to a creator. No one would look at a watch, which is far less complicated than the human body and think that it came together by chance without a creator.
If I took apart a watch and left it's workings on a table, it wouldn't matter if I waited a trillion years, that watch wouldn't be put together or working after that span of time on its on. And that's not even broaching the issue of where the watch parts originated in the first place.
If I took apart a watch and left it's workings on a table, it wouldn't matter if I waited a trillion years, that watch wouldn't be put together or working after that span of time on its on. And that's not even broaching the issue of where the watch parts originated in the first place.
2
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:05 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:Nonverifiable has a specific definition. Science provides it.
it depends by what you mean by verifiable.
Scientifically well no
At this point, God is scientifically nonverifiable, unless perhaps you subscribe to Gödel's Mathematical Proof, which (as far as I know) the Catholic Church does not.
quote:Faith, my friend, that's faith
I think you can know God but you can't know God with absolute certainty. But we are getting into a completely different realm of philosophy, aka epistemology.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:13 pm to Revelator
Revelator, I agree completely on that fact. I believe that there is an intelligent consciousness behind this universe and other universes and dimensions. But to ascribe that intelligence the name God and say that he favors one manmade religion over another is where I stop. Things just get ridiculous at that point. Most of humanity in every culture at all places and times throughout recorded human history have thought that they worshipped the one true God. I don't know why modern Christians in the western world think their religion and god is any different. Your religious beliefs are 99% about where you were born and your familial conditioning when you were young. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia, the overwhelming odds are that you would be Muslim right now, not Christian. Christians basically are saying that the vast majority of the world's population is going to hell simply due to an accident of birth. That's ludicrous to any thinking person.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:22 pm to Wolfhound45
Well there's proof she exists, unlike your god, so there's a much better chance that created it.
Sasha 1
Your god 0
Sasha 1
Your god 0
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:23 pm to Revelator
quote:
The creation itself and all it's complexity, vastness and mystery speaks to a creator.
No, it doesn't. That's an assumption based on no evidence.
quote:
No one would look at a watch, which is far less complicated than the human body and think that it came together by chance without a creator.
Right, because we make watches, they don't appear in nature.
quote:
If I took apart a watch and left it's workings on a table, it wouldn't matter if I waited a trillion years, that watch wouldn't be put together or working after that span of time on its on. And that's not even broaching the issue of where the watch parts originated in the first place.
Your analogy is not sufficient.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:29 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:It is indeed . . . as is the antithesis.
The creation itself and all it's complexity, vastness and mystery speaks to a creator.
That's an assumption based on no evidence.
Yet we are here!
So something damn well happened.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:29 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
No, it doesn't. That's an assumption based on no evidence.
It's an observation based on logic and common sense.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:34 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
It is indeed . . . as is the antithesis.
We came from stars. This is known. Just because we aren't sure about the events before the big bang doesn't necessitate a creator.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:34 pm to genuineLSUtiger
quote:Different languages enunciating the same message.
If you had been born in Saudi Arabia, the overwhelming odds are that you would be Muslim right now, not Christian. Christians basically are saying that the vast majority of the world's population is going to hell simply due to an accident of birth. That's ludicrous to any thinking person.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:35 pm to Revelator
quote:
It's an observation based on logic and common sense.
It is not logical to believe in supernatural events, nor is it common sense (unless you're somehow speaking to me from the Stone Age).
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:36 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Different languages enunciating the same message.
No, the messages are quite different. Buddhism, for example.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:37 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:So now we are down to something that "necessitates" rather than possible alternatives?
doesn't necessitate a creator.
Is that the "proof"?
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:38 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:In the end, no.
No, the messages are quite different. Buddhism, for example.
It's about finding spirituality and goodness.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:39 pm to NC_Tigah
No, those who make truth claims about creation by an all powerful being are the ones who must provide proof. Science is slowly working to provide proof.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:39 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Nonverifiable has a specific definition. Science provides it.
I'm kinda overemphasizing things. But I was trying to bring in epistemology a little bit. Scientifically there is a set way a thing is verified. But something can be verified so to speak outside of science. But that wouldn't provide for science.
I think trying to verify God is the wrong way to go about it. Because you are reducing God to science. Science can't speak to the origins of Matter, because science studies matter it can't know it's origin. (I don't mean matter in terms of science, I mean matter in terms of philosophy, Go read about what Aristotle means by matter.
God has no matter, meaning science can't study him. Again I mean matter in terms of how Aristotle talks about matter, not how science talks about it.
quote:
God is scientifically nonverifiable
God's nature is unverifiable. At-least the definition of God I hold to.
quote:
Faith, my friend, that's faith
I think we have a disagreement on what is meant by faith.
Man can come to know that God exists through reason. If man comes to realize that some type of God must exist that isn't an act of faith that is an act of reason that comes to a logical conclusion of his inquiry. Things in the Christian religion can only be "known" by faith, like Jesus Christ is God and Man. You can't scientifically verify that no matter how hard you try. Or something more recent, Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. That is known by faith and can't be known by reason unaided.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:41 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
In the end, no.
In the end, yes, the message of eternal life through sacrificing your own life is quite different than deliverance of the mind.
quote:
It's about finding spirituality and goodness.
Spirituality and goodness can be found without religion.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:41 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
No, those who make truth claims about creation by an all powerful being are the ones who must provide proof. Science is slowly working to provide proof.
proof of what the origin of matter? of all material things? You will never reach it. Even if you could get to what is the origin of material things scientifically, you would still have to ask what is the origin of that thing.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:42 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Spirituality
what do you mean by spirituality?
quote:
goodness can be found without religion.
yeah that is pretty obvious.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:42 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:Gödel thought that could be extrapolated to a proof. Do you?
Man can come to know that God exists through reason
No right or wrong answer IMO, just curious.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:43 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
proof of what the origin of matter? of all material things? You will never reach it. Even if you could get to what is the origin of material things scientifically, you would still have to ask what is the origin of that thing.
Neither you nor I know enough about quantum mechanics or physics to make such a claim.
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