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Started By
Message
re: Robert E. Lee has been misrepresented by regressive "historians"
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:43 am to blackrose890
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:43 am to blackrose890
quote:
You'll have a hard time convincing people that Sherman was a hero. He was an excellent military commander, but he oversaw and committed some of the most terrible actions in american warfare.
Nuh uh.
0
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:43 am to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
But having arguments over the Civil War almost 2 centuries later is absolutely pointless.
This is what historians pretty much do, and goes far beyond the Civil War. I'm sure as I type this somebody, somewhere, is having an argument over the Peloponnesian War which happened 25 centuries ago.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:45 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
I get that. I should have known better to voice an opinion of apathy regarding the Civil War on here. 
But to your point, the things this board "discusses" about the civil war invariably devolve into whether slavery was the South'a motivation or the retarded monument issue. Neither of those things seem worth spending time on.
But to your point, the things this board "discusses" about the civil war invariably devolve into whether slavery was the South'a motivation or the retarded monument issue. Neither of those things seem worth spending time on.
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 7:47 am
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:49 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
He was fighting for Virginia. His personal decision had nothing whatsoever to do with slavery either way. As Virginia went, so went Lee.
then why did 2/5's of west pointers go to the north?
why did other generals from virginia go to the north?
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:51 am to blackrose890
quote:
Sherman would be probably most accurately described the greatest tool of destruction the USA ever unleashed within its own borders.
Philip Sheridan runs a close second. General Sheridan also meddled in the affairs of Louisiana and Texas after the war.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:54 am to monsterballads
Ol' Pap Thomas who wrecked the rebel Army of Tennessee at the battle of Nashville was a Virginian.
The Battle of Nashville by Howard Pyle
Long live the United States.
The Battle of Nashville by Howard Pyle
Long live the United States.
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 7:57 am
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:55 am to monsterballads
What were his views on slavery?
It is shocking how he treated his father-in-law's slaves.
What happened after that?
In another departure from the conventional portrait of Lee, you show him agonizing over joining the Confederacy.
Yet two days later, Lee accepted the offer to lead Virginia's forces.
private thoughts of REL
quote:
These papers are filled with information about slavery. This is not something you have to read between the lines; Lee really tells us how he feels. He saw slaves as property, that he owned them and their labor. Now you can say he wasn't worse than anyone; he was reflecting the values of the society that he lived in. I would say, he wasn't any better than anyone else, either.
It is shocking how he treated his father-in-law's slaves.
quote:
Lee's wife inherited 196 slaves upon her father's death in 1857. The will stated that the slaves were to be freed within five years, and at the same time large legacies—raised from selling property—should be given to the Lee children. But as the executor of the will, Lee decided that instead of freeing the slaves right away—as they expected—he could continue to own and work them for five years in an effort to make the estates profitable and not have to sell the property.
What happened after that?
quote:
Lee was considered a hard taskmaster. He also started hiring slaves to other families, sending them away, and breaking up families that had been together on the estate for generations. The slaves resented him, were terrified they would never be freed, and they lost all respect for him. There were many runaways, and at one point several slaves jumped him, claiming they were as free as he. Lee ordered these men to be severely whipped. He also petitioned the court to extend their servitude, but the court ruled against him and Lee did grant them their freedom on Jan. 1, 1863—ironically, the same day that Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect.
In another departure from the conventional portrait of Lee, you show him agonizing over joining the Confederacy.
quote:
Lee's decision to go with Virginia was not inevitable at all. It was very wrenching, and we trivialize it if we say, as some biographers have, that it's a no-brainer, that it was the choice he was born to make. To put it in some context, Gen. Winfield Scott remained with the Union, and he was from Virginia, and so did two fifths of all West Pointers from Virginia. Lee himself said he held on to his letter resigning from the U.S. Army for a whole day before he sent it because it was so painful. The description of Lee at home pacing and weeping and praying, trying to decide what to do is almost a Shakespearean moment.
Yet two days later, Lee accepted the offer to lead Virginia's forces.
quote:
Lee's explanation was, "I could not raise my hand against my home and my family." The irony is that many of his friends and family members sided with the North, including his sister, whom he never saw again. Her son and two of his closest cousins fought for the North. So either way, Lee would fight against members of his family, and that's why it was an impossible decision.
private thoughts of REL
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 7:58 am
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:55 am to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
But to your point, the things this board "discusses" about the civil war invariably devolve into whether slavery was the South'a motivation or the retarded monument issue. Neither of those things seem worth spending time on.
Then what's next? There's a group (made up of college student SJWs and Pan-African angry blacks) in NOLA who has an entire list of things in New Orleans they, and they alone, deem offensive, and will only become more vocal, and possibly violent, to have these things changed. Give people like this an inch, they want a mile.
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 7:59 am
Posted on 5/22/17 at 7:57 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Ol' Pap Thomas who wrecked the rebel Army of Tennessee at the battle of Nashville was a Virginian.
So why did he fight for the north and not the south?
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:00 am to monsterballads
quote:
Lee's decision to go with Virginia was not inevitable at all.
Lee addressed the secesh government of Virginia while wearing his US Army uniform. He couldn't wait to frick over the United States. To hell with that guy.
"Great honor is due to those officers who remain true, despite the example of their treacherous associates; but the greatest honor, and most important fact of all, is the unanimous firmness of the common soldiers, and common sailors. To the last man, so far as known, they have successfully resisted the traitorous efforts of those, whose commands, but an hour before, they obeyed as absolute law. This is the patriotic instinct of the plain people. They understand, without an argument, that destroying the government, which was made by Washington, means no good to them."
A. Lincoln 7/4/61
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:02 am to monsterballads
quote:
Ol' Pap Thomas who wrecked the rebel Army of Tennessee at the battle of Nashville was a Virginian.
So why did he fight for the north and not the south?
Maybe because he cared more about the future than the past.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:05 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
There is merit to that. I don't disagree with you. I think the "take me down" crowd are delusional and even more silly than those here who take the opposite side. Trust me, I am no friend of the SJW's.
I wasn't so much offering a solution, but a comment on how idiotic it is to let oneself get as upset over the Civil frickin War as so many on here seem to. .
I wasn't so much offering a solution, but a comment on how idiotic it is to let oneself get as upset over the Civil frickin War as so many on here seem to. .
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 8:06 am
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:07 am to WhiskeyPapa
Lee is made out to be some innocent southern folk hero from people who will tell you "go read a history book!".
it's funny and sad at the same time from the ones telling people to "get educated about the civil war/Lee" when they themselves don't know the truth about him. or deliberately ignore it and insert their own southern fantasies.
it's funny and sad at the same time from the ones telling people to "get educated about the civil war/Lee" when they themselves don't know the truth about him. or deliberately ignore it and insert their own southern fantasies.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:10 am to Bayou
quote:
Sure, because it's always too late to educate
please educate us about robert e. lee.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:12 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Lee was completely in it for states' rights. 100%
State's right to what?
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:15 am to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
I wasn't so much offering a solution, but a comment on how idiotic it is to let oneself get as upset over the Civil frickin War as so many on here seem to. .
Because it's a microcosm of the overall cultural purge that's going on in this country today all in the name of "inclusion, diversity, and unity." This is not going to stop with the removal of Confederate monuments or other vestiges of the Lost Cause.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:15 am to monsterballads
Gen. George Pickett on Lee after the war:
He never forgave Lee for ignoring the advice of his Generals at Gettysburg and sending him and his division on that stupid charge.
He lost all respect he had for Lee that day.
quote:
That old man massacred my entire division
He never forgave Lee for ignoring the advice of his Generals at Gettysburg and sending him and his division on that stupid charge.
He lost all respect he had for Lee that day.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:21 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
I've never understood modern people who seemingly let their self identity get wrapped up in the "Lost Cause" concept.
Irony. It's ok to have certain "symbols" that represent different things to different people taken down or destroyed. Why? Erasing our history or eliminating physical "reminders" is a lost cause. It creates greater animosity and divides the people.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:22 am to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm a history buff with the best of them. But this shite truly does not matter
Clearly liking history doesn't mean you understand the importance of the events. The Civil war was incredibly important and it goes to the soul of this nation.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 8:30 am to Paluka
quote:
Irony. It's ok to have certain "symbols" that represent different things to different people taken down or destroyed. Why? Erasing our history or eliminating physical "reminders" is a lost cause. It creates greater animosity and divides the people.
Well said.
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