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re: My issues with Supply Side Economics

Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:03 am to
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27475 posts
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:03 am to
My point exactly. Most either could no afford to do this or did other things with the tax cut. For the larger corporations overall my guess is that they did a lot of stock buy backs with he extra money
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3206 posts
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:11 am to
Supply Side Economics... IMO.. whatever shortcomings/faults you may come up with (real or imagined) does not address the one fundamental issue with our economy

Overall, business and investment is driven by a "make money now" mentality...

This mind set creates its own set of problems due to the fundamental short-sighted nature of it...

If you never look beyond the hood of your car then inevitably you are going to run into a wall...
Posted by germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
14135 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 10:11 am to
quote:

quote:
society imposes regulation in order to exist


Right. This is how the free market works.





You can have a free market or a regulated market. You can’t have both. Once you start regulating it is impossible to not tighten regulation as individuals find ways to skirt regulation. Soon regulations begin ti require regulating and they sown even more regulation. It is inevitable. Eventually folks discover they can use regulation to gain a competitive advantage.....this is the basis of cronyism....regulation intended to pick winners and losers. This is the proble.

If you have 8 companies with warehouses located at an intersection, two at each corner, it would be sensible to have a 4 way stop regulating the flow of traffic through the intersection. Everyone would have to stop. A pain in the arse for everyone but a reasonable swap of liberty for security ( a loss of the freedom to blow through the intersection, a subtle increase in the security represented by knowledge that your vehicles and drivers aren’t going to be running into one another all day everyday). This is sensible regulation.

Now let’s pretend that one of these companies makes widgets used in national security. Their management convinces the government that the stop sign is hindering their ability to efficiently supply their component of national security......so they receive permission to not comply with the stop sign regulation. Of course this wreaks havoc in the intersection so the others complain and there are all sorts of attempts and ideas to fix the issue, all resulting in further regulation. This is how regulation begets regulation.

Now, if the national security widget company is chummy with government maybe they don’t just get permission to blow through the intersection...maybe the government shuts all the roads down except that road used by the widget company. The other 7 are shite out of luck and soon out of business. That’s a very simple example of cronyism.

By the way....many free market worshippers will also argue if you swap security for freedom you deserve neither. An asinine idea.....and in this case one that would literally have them arguing with a stop sign.
Posted by Sunbeam
Member since Dec 2016
2612 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

Companies aren't in business to hoard cash. Companies are in business to invest more and grow. But they can only invest more when there are attractive opportunities available to them and they aren't padding reserves due to greater uncertainty (i.e. the massive increase in regulation during the Obama years). As companies invest and grow, they hire more. As companies hire more, labor becomes scarce. As labor becomes scarce, wages go up. All of the above are indeed the preferred state of affairs for most companies. The reason companies used cash in irregular amounts for dividends and buybacks during the Obama years is because of historically low interest rates (prompting them to use debt to finance dividends and buybacks and thus increase stock prices without having to invest in capex) and an anti-business tone at the top (massive expansion in Federal bureaucracy, which competes for resources with the private sector). SSE isn't a flawless theory, but it's still a damn good one, all else equal.



Supply Side Economics is not simply not correct, it's not even wrong. The whole theory was originated in a world that no longer exists.

Look, just considering companies, there are no massive opportunities just wanting for them to expand production of widgets, just spend cash and profit.

A lot of companies are awashin in profits, but there isn't anything useful for them to invest in, so they do stock buybacks and pay dividends (personally I'd argue they should just pay dividends).

Another issue to add to this is that whatever few large scale investment opportunities that exist perversely destroy smaller businesses, and wind up creating a net loss of jobs and hence consumer purchasing power.

Know what Amazon is? It's fricking Walmart run over the internet, without even the need for a storefront and employees.

Sure they have coders (thoughtfully imported from India, and pushing down the wages of programmers) implementing things, and warehouse and distribution system employees.

But the margin on their business is so bad, and it always will be since they are arbitraging in a low margin business (just like grocery stores). Has Amazon even made a profit yet? It's been what, 20+ years; the stock is high but this isn't exactly Ford Motors 1928 versus 1908.

Anyway, I could write similar thinga about EBay (fricking Craigslist with a lot of features), or Uber. - God Uber. Their whole business model is basically taking a dump on local regulations and unions. But "Progressives" are cool with it because "Tech."

Then I could talk about the coming freight train of automation and actually useful laboring robots. Heck large grain operations are pretty darn close to the point where you don't even need the local Hayseeds in Iowa for anything. Just run and monitor everything from New York - or Beijing.

In short we got some big things coming, and none of them exactly require massive investment - or if they do they aren't going to increase employment and consumer spending.

Really the only big thing available that would require massive investment, and increase employment and consumer spending is infrastructure. We have a lot of bridges, roads, dams, various sundry other waterworks that are in god awful shape. Some critical water handling systems were built in the 1800's and are in bad, bad shape.

But that gig is a government operation, even if the work is done by private corporations.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112457 posts
Posted on 7/21/18 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

I understand the general premise of supply-side.


No, you don't. It is not 'trickle down.' It's the behavior of people with money. If you tax them they will find less productive ways to safeguard their money... like tax exempt bonds.

Woodrow Wilson learned this the hard way when high income tax rates on the wealthy produced a sharp decline of wealthy people reporting taxable income. They put their money elsewhere.

When JFK lowered taxes on the rich they took their money out of secure places and expanded their businesses and revenues went up.
This post was edited on 7/21/18 at 1:19 pm
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