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re: MH17 & Putin - What If?
Posted on 7/18/14 at 1:19 pm to MetArl15
Posted on 7/18/14 at 1:19 pm to MetArl15
quote:
Russians are generally distrustful and terrified of foreigners in their backyard, and this provocation would not end well.
Russia's been provoking the frick out of the former Russian Republics and satellite nations like Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, etc., for the past decade.
They shouldn't be surprised when someone provokes them in return.
1
Posted on 7/18/14 at 1:59 pm to MetArl15
If this incident had happened in a vacuum, I would not advocate for the 5 points I outlined in my original post, which I agree can and should be interpreted as "provocative." However, ever since the Russian invasion of Georgia, the US and Europe have treated Russia with kit gloves. Putin has interpreted our tolerance as weakness, and he has only grown emboldened.
I realize comparisons to Nazi Germany and World War II are viewed as either simplistic or unenlightened by the self-styled foreign policy experts on this board, but I can't help but think about Hitler's comments about his invasion of The Rhineland in 1936 - “The forty-eight hours after the march into the Rhineland were the most nerve-racking in my life….If the French had then marched into the Rhineland, we would have had to withdraw with our tails between our legs, for the military resources at our disposal would have been wholly inadequate for even moderate resistance.” All the French (the most powerful military in continental Europe at the time) had to do was mount a show of force and Hitler would've fled the Rhineland in disgrace.They could have neutered Hitler without firing a shot; all they had to do was (figuratively) stand their ground.
The time has come to flex our muscles and emasculate Putin a little bit on the world stage. We've tried the other way, and it hasn't turned out well thus far.
I realize comparisons to Nazi Germany and World War II are viewed as either simplistic or unenlightened by the self-styled foreign policy experts on this board, but I can't help but think about Hitler's comments about his invasion of The Rhineland in 1936 - “The forty-eight hours after the march into the Rhineland were the most nerve-racking in my life….If the French had then marched into the Rhineland, we would have had to withdraw with our tails between our legs, for the military resources at our disposal would have been wholly inadequate for even moderate resistance.” All the French (the most powerful military in continental Europe at the time) had to do was mount a show of force and Hitler would've fled the Rhineland in disgrace.They could have neutered Hitler without firing a shot; all they had to do was (figuratively) stand their ground.
The time has come to flex our muscles and emasculate Putin a little bit on the world stage. We've tried the other way, and it hasn't turned out well thus far.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:44 pm to DeltaDoc
nothing, its better to just stay silent on the issue than have bama embarrassed again by Putin.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:51 pm to teke184
The Ukrainian government has a video up showing a Buk SAM device being removed from the eastern part of the country on a truck, missing one missile.
Given that the SAM is on tank treads, it's a case of whoever is moving this thing wanting it to get there pretty damn quick.
Given that the SAM is on tank treads, it's a case of whoever is moving this thing wanting it to get there pretty damn quick.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 4:05 pm to DeltaDoc
What do you think the US should do? Unless you believe this to have been an intentional shoot down, I don't see why this should increase our involvement in this conflict whatsoever.
Assuming for argument's sake that it can be proven or is admitted by the Russians that they supplied the separatists with this SAM system, that doesn't indicate Russian intent to destabilize international peace or to expand the conflict. We arm people all the time in foreign struggles. If the Russians armed these separatists with this platform, it seems pretty obvious that the intent would be to target Ukrainian military aircraft, not international airliners.
I just don't understand the logic of people wanting to further aggravate international relations and escalate tensions over what appears to be an accidental shoot down of a commercial plane in an active conflict zone.
Assuming for argument's sake that it can be proven or is admitted by the Russians that they supplied the separatists with this SAM system, that doesn't indicate Russian intent to destabilize international peace or to expand the conflict. We arm people all the time in foreign struggles. If the Russians armed these separatists with this platform, it seems pretty obvious that the intent would be to target Ukrainian military aircraft, not international airliners.
I just don't understand the logic of people wanting to further aggravate international relations and escalate tensions over what appears to be an accidental shoot down of a commercial plane in an active conflict zone.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 4:16 pm to NWHoustonTiger
quote:
NWHoustonTiger
I agree there are some fundamental comparisons between Putin and Hitler regarding their foreign policy decisions. And whether Putin intends to start WW3 or not, I agree we should take a more defensible stance and make him show his cards.
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