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re: How do we proactively eradicate ISIS without "continuing pointless war in the Middle East?
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:33 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:33 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
We -should- or could just leave them alone of course.
We could. What undesirable consequences do you think the US would incur by allowing ISIS to proliferate unchecked?
I think some have this idea that the US can just pull out and insulate themselves from ISIS. If the US retreats, ISIS will simply go to where we are. They'll attack the US military in Europe, in Africa, in Asia. And if we pull out of those places, they'll come to North America.
People are trying to figure out a clean, neat scenario where the US is no longer affected by terrorism if we just stop reacting to it. That's naïve. There is no quick, painless solution to this problem.
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Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:37 pm to ChargerDog91
quote:
So just create more people to hate us in 30 years?
Then we'll do the same thing in 30 years.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:39 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I think some have this idea that the US can just pull out and insulate themselves from ISIS. If the US retreats, ISIS will simply go to where we are. They'll attack the US military in Europe, in Africa, in Asia. And if we pull out of those places, they'll come to North America.
It was always bullshite when the Bushies said we had to fight them over there or we would have to fight them over here. As if people who make shoes from old tires, don't speak English or use toilet paper were any threat to us here.
They can already attack us outside of the Sand Box. There was an attack like that yesterday in England.
Sending our guys into small arms range from them only benefits Wall Street.
This is from Afghanistan.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:42 pm to ChargerDog91
quote:
So just create more people to hate us in 30 years?
If it were up to me, we would pull out of the mid-east completely and let the place rot.
But if we do that we need to impose a complete travel ban from all Muslim majority nations, with the exception of people who have "valid business" to do here (scientists, business people, diplomats). These people would be thoroughly vetted. We would accept no refugees and no immigration (with rare exceptions).
So, we have a choice:
1) Go over there and ruthlessly destroy them (and kill innocents).
2) Pull completely out and stop them from coming here
Which will it be? It has to be one or the other.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:45 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
It was always bull shite when the Bushies said we had to fight them over there or we would have to fight them over here. As if people who make shoes from old tires, don't speak English or use toilet paper were any threat to us here.
It's not that ISIS fighters in Syria will literally board a plane and come here (though some will). It's that a burgeoning foreign terrorist organization left unchecked would lead to more home grown terrorists. Things like the 2016 Orlando shooting would occur with more frequency. And no travel ban would do anything to stop it from happening.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:48 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
It was always bull shite when the Bushies said we had to fight them over there or we would have to fight them over here. As if people who make shoes from old tires, don't speak English or use toilet paper were any threat to us here.
It's not that ISIS fighters in Syria will literally board a plane and come here (though some will). It's that a burgeoning foreign terrorist organization left unchecked would lead to more home grown terrorists.
How does playing to their strengths stop that?
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:48 pm to 225bred
Bomb their oil fields
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:48 pm to 225bred
You are not going to kill the ideology of ISIS unless you can get the Saudi Royal family to wage war on their Wahhabi followers and that simply will never happen. We have to live with this ongoing cancer for the coming future. Maybe in a generation or two there will be some kind of Islamic reform movement takeover, but that most like would follow a bloody civil war. Let the Russians and Chinese arm them.
Our current POTUS seems to think the Iranians are the bigger problem and because of this, he has become a shill for SA and Israel.
Our current POTUS seems to think the Iranians are the bigger problem and because of this, he has become a shill for SA and Israel.
This post was edited on 3/23/17 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:55 pm to Big12fan
quote:
You are not going to kill the ideology of ISIS unless you can get the Saudi Royal family to wage war on their Wahhabi followers and that simply will never happen. We have to live with this ongoing cancer for the coming future. Maybe in a generation or two there will be some kind of Islamic reform movement takeover, but that most like would follow a bloody civil war. Let the Russians and Chinese arm them.
Our current POTUS seems to think the Iranians are the bigger problem and because of this, he has become a shill for SA and Israel.
Good stuff.
Iran is who we need to co-opt as an ally. Iraq was also a bulwark against Saudi Arabia - one that WE removed on behalf of Israel - but one that would have always given the worthless arse Saudis pause. Now Saudi Arabia is unrestrained in its efforts to cause us ill.
The big takeaway here is that our government will work against our best interests and send our young people to die for Wall Street profits. Hillary Couldn't WAIT to crank up the largest war possible just for the purpose of serving the Military/Congressional Industrial Complex.
Iran was an important ally of ours in the region for decades and should be again. We bear bait the Iranians because that is what the Jewish State wants.
It is way past time that our foreign policy serves us not Israel.
How should it work over there? What is our best policy? Using history as our guide always, we can look at the Brits going back to the Golden Age under Elizabeth.
Brit policy was to support a weaker continental country against the strongest continental country. Spain ascendant? Support the Dutch. France Ascendant? Support the Spanish. Russia a problem? Ally with France and support Turkey. Germany ascendant? Support France. Germans at your throat again? Support France again. Unceremoniously ejected from the continent? Enlist the United States.
That policy works. It worked for the Brits for 300 years. We are doing exactly the opposite in our policy. The ally we need in that region is IRAN. We pretty much shanghaied them into being our ally in the 1950's. After their revolution we should have enlisted them as such again. The Reagan Administration took them a cake. The Iranians have a large population they have a long and proud history and they are NOT Arab. They hate the Arabs. THEY could act as a foil to Saudi Arabia., which is our greatest enemy in the region by far, and perhaps the world.
Supporting the second strongest power in a region against the strongest is a proven policy.
We don't pursue that policy because the Jews don't like it.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 1:57 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Iran is who we need to co-opt as an ally.
That will never happen.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:11 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Iran is who we need to co-opt as an ally.
That will never happen.
No it won't ever happen. It as good as proof as any that our government actively works against our best interests.
We shanghai'ed Iran into being our ally back in the '50's. It made sense then and it makes sense now. Even after the Iranian revolution and the hostage seizure The Reagan Admin reached out to them. We provided them support against Iraq and Iraq support against them in the 1980-88 war.
Iran's population is very young and the worst US abuses are well in the past. We should do whatever it takes to make them our ally again and set Israel and Saudi Arabia on notice.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:20 pm to WhiskeyPapa
It would be beneficial to all to lay out a balance of power in the region so that stability is promoted as well as to disincentivize the shadow wars ME governments are so fond of funding.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:20 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:.
This is from Afghanistan.
What's your fricking point?
This is also from Afghanistan:
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:22 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It would be beneficial to all to lay out a balance of power in the region so that stability is promoted as well as to disincentivize the shadow wars ME governments are so fond of funding. Back to top ReplyRequest AdminReplies (0) 00
Iran has a much larger population than Saudi Arabia. Empowering Iran would put SA on serious notice to shut down their Wahhabi bullshite and to stop funding organizations that mean us ill.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:24 pm to WhiskeyPapa
That would be nice, as shutting down the Wahabis and Salafis would do wonders for global terrorism. Instead we take the opposite approach.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:24 pm to 225bred
quote:
How do we proactively eradicate ISIS without "continuing pointless war in the Middle East?
Pull all troops out of middle east and non answer any phone calls or send any aid at all for a decade and let those people work out their own fricking problems
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:30 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
This is from Afghanistan. .
What's your fricking point?
The taxpayers don't need to be paying for TGI Fridays in Afghanistan. It makes the whole purpose look like a hook up for somebody's frat buddy. God knows we haven't accomplished anything else in Afghanistan.
I guess I am jealous. We did a 10 day op at 29 Palms and had c-rats for every meal. I read this thing about an Army unit in Iraq; the first time they were there, they boiled a chicken in an ammo can. When they came back they had access to Baskin Robbins.
We -know- you are a shill for the status quo, but puh-leaze try and be more subtle.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:33 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
The taxpayers don't need to be paying for TGI Fridays in Afghanistan.
Fridays is the least of our problems, if you could even call it that.
quote:
We did a 10 day op at 29 Palms and had c-rats for every meal.
That must have been hell.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Instead we take the opposite approach.
We take the opposite approach and the DOD can't make do on $605,000,000,000 a year or whatever it is.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
We did a 10 day op at 29 Palms and had c-rats for every meal.
That must have been hell.
I didn't think twice about it. Nobody did. We had a giant beer party the last night. That was nice.
1/8 is the battalion that just added the WM infantrymen.
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