- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Common core prolly didn’t help with homegrown engineers.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 11:51 am to Porpus
Posted on 1/3/25 at 11:51 am to Porpus
quote:
Common Core, like the "New Math" that was similarly tried and rejected in the 1960s, is exactly what we need if we're going to educate engineers and scientists.
Dude, seriously.
We have over a decade of proof that this is shite for kids.
Egotistical people decided it was better to teach something difficult than actually have the kids learn.
We have educated scientists and engineers for decades without common core.
Can a private school with small class sizes and an elite teacher teach common core and boost some kids? Maybe, it's still not great for young minds.
Can Public? Hell no, we have plenty of data that says it's terrible.
Children learn best on rote, later they can go into number theory.
The human mind must anchor itself.
It's the same as Calculus with limits vs infinitesimals. It was discovered via physics using infinitesimals which are more naturally understood by humans, Limits are more powerful, but are more abstract.
*edit* Limits were more powerful, but there were findings in the 1960s that are well beyond my mathematical experience that solve the infinitesimal problem. You would need someone better at math than me to make a full evaluation if one is better than the other for all college students.
We teach limits today because kids in college can handle the higher abstraction.
5 year olds are not ready for abstract, especially by public school teachers.
It's like telling kids they don't need training wheels.
This post was edited on 1/3/25 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 1/3/25 at 11:59 am to LNCHBOX
The fact that you cannot do simple math in your head; and, that you don't feel the need to teach your children same is the problem. Lazy fvcker.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 12:42 pm to dstone12
Common core isn't a math curriculum.
Besides, if they don't know the denominations to type into the register then the problem is far bigger than the way schools are teaching math.
Besides, if they don't know the denominations to type into the register then the problem is far bigger than the way schools are teaching math.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 12:55 pm to WildManGoose
quote:
Common core isn't a math curriculum.
Isn't just a math curriculum, but it does significantly change the way teachers teach math.
For upper class parents, and parents in high education cultures.
Parents who start their kids on flash cards by 3 years old.
For parents who's kids started school knowing a lot of addition already.
For Parents who are going to take their kids to kumon and do the multiplication tables at home/after-school.
Teaching them solving strategies sounds right, but it is not how humans learn. We learn the answer, and then we use math to explain the relationship.
That was most of our history.
We learn answers experimentally, know the answer, and then discover the relationship that predicts the answer.
Common Core helps people who already know the answer to understand more about how to get there.
We have data that shows for those who enter the class not knowing the answer, it hurts their abilities later on.
This post was edited on 1/3/25 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 1/3/25 at 1:10 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
My kids likely won't be the best at giving out change, as there's almost no reason for that to be a skill for them
Bragging that your kids can't count certainly is one way to argue.
I always get rid of change when I can to get straight bills back and never run into this supposed problem.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 1:11 pm to dstone12
Practical application is the issue. Teaching in metric only helps those who struggle with math to begin with and then no one has experience using imperial when they get their first job.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 1:29 pm to Narax
Curriculums like Engage NY or Eureka don't exclude math facts though. They just expand into algorithms and application after the facts are established. That's what you seem to be advocating. That's been my kids experience anyway.
In any case, OP bemoaning "common core" math because a fast food cashier gets flustered from change is a lazy argument.
In any case, OP bemoaning "common core" math because a fast food cashier gets flustered from change is a lazy argument.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 1:43 pm to toratiger
quote:
Yes. Clerk a Pet Smart short changed me. When i questioned her she began drawing circles and squares. She had to call the manager and they used a hand held calculator to correct the situation..
I had one ask me how much a dime was worth.

Posted on 1/3/25 at 1:45 pm to WildManGoose
quote:
Curriculums like Engage NY or Eureka don't exclude math facts though. They just expand into algorithms and application after the facts are established. That's what you seem to be advocating. That's been my kids experience anyway.
While I have no familiarity with Engage NY, it does not seem like it is working for 50% of kids in NY.
This is my point, though, we have data, if you or I think it will work and it doesn't that means that we need to rethink.
If your goal is only that your kids do well, then all we know is that your kids are doing well.
As I mentioned, kids who get additional resources will do well, no matter what curriculum.
If we have a giant STEM hole, that hole is going to need to get filled out of the kids who don't go into STEM, or would have but weren't proficient enough in HS.
https://www.nysed.gov/news/2024/state-education-department-releases-preliminary-data-english-language-arts-mathematics-and-science-exams
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/a-district-is-making-a-huge-bet-on-one-math-curriculum-to-improve-achievement/2024/06
Posted on 1/3/25 at 3:08 pm to Porpus
quote:
Neanderthal take on math education, as is the notion that memorizing what 12 x 11 is will help anyone do engineering.
But what about 12 x 10? I've seen an engineering student pull out a calculator to do that. It shows a decided lack of fundamentals.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 4:27 pm to Rambler
quote:
But what about 12 x 10? I've seen an engineering student pull out a calculator to do that. It shows a decided lack of fundamentals.
No you haven't. My 8 year old knows the answer to that.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 4:31 pm to dstone12
quote:
amazing to have a total bill of 27.82 at a fast food and you hand the lady 32.82 and she’s frozen stuff on why you handed her that amount
True, but this is not CC's fault
Posted on 1/3/25 at 4:33 pm to jrobic4
quote:
True, but this is not CC's fault
In that specific case it is NCLB.
People are allowed to keep moving through grades without fundamentals.
CC does seem to acerbate, again, kids keep doing worse.
The earlier the cashier was left behind by not getting the basics, to sooner the undertow of NCLB swept her off to graduation.
This post was edited on 1/3/25 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 1/3/25 at 4:40 pm to dstone12
I asked ChatGPT the following question:
What is common core math and how does it differ from traditional math?
I still see no difference between traditional math and common core. It just looks like a way textbook writers put a new spin on teaching math to sell more textbooks.
Math is math. I learned with traditional math text books and my kids learned with common core math textbooks. I still taught them all the shortcuts and how it applies to real life regardless of how the teacher taught. In fact my oldest is going to graduate in math this spring.
What is common core math and how does it differ from traditional math?
quote:
Common Core Math is a teaching framework that emphasizes conceptual understanding, problem-solving, and the ability to apply mathematical reasoning in real-world contexts. It was introduced as part of the **Common Core State Standards** (CCSS), adopted by many U.S. states to create a consistent and rigorous approach to math education.
### Key Features of Common Core Math:
1. **Focus on Understanding:** It emphasizes why math works, not just how to perform operations. Students explore multiple methods to solve problems and understand the relationships between numbers.
2. **Problem-Solving:** Students are encouraged to apply math to real-world scenarios, fostering deeper thinking and adaptability.
3. **Multiple Strategies:** Instead of relying on one method (e.g., traditional algorithms), Common Core promotes exploring different ways to approach and solve problems.
4. **Step-by-Step Progression:** Skills build upon one another more systematically, with an emphasis on mastering foundational concepts before moving on to more complex topics.
### How It Differs from Traditional Math:
1. **Algorithms vs. Conceptual Understanding:**
- Traditional math often teaches one standard algorithm for operations (e.g., long division).
- Common Core math allows students to explore alternative methods (e.g., breaking numbers apart, using arrays) before introducing standard algorithms.
2. **Visual Representations:**
- Common Core heavily incorporates visual tools like number lines, area models, and bar diagrams to help students visualize and conceptualize problems.
- Traditional math relies less on visual aids and focuses more on procedural calculations.
3. **Emphasis on Explanation:**
- Students must explain their reasoning in Common Core math, demonstrating understanding beyond arriving at the correct answer.
- Traditional math prioritizes getting the correct answer, often without requiring detailed explanations.
4. **Real-World Application:**
- Common Core includes more word problems and tasks that mimic real-life situations.
- Traditional math tends to separate theoretical problems from practical applications.
5. **Flexibility in Methods:**
- Common Core encourages multiple strategies, promoting creativity and individual learning styles.
- Traditional math typically teaches one "correct" method.
### Example: Adding 27 + 46
- **Traditional Math:** Stack the numbers vertically and use column addition.
- **Common Core Math:**
- Decompose numbers: (27 + 40) + 6 = 67 + 6 = 73.
- Use a number line to "jump" from 27 to 73.
- Explain the thought process behind the steps.
### Challenges and Criticisms:
- **Parental Frustration:** Since Common Core methods often differ from what parents learned, helping children with homework can be challenging.
- **Steeper Learning Curve:** Some argue that exploring multiple strategies before standard algorithms can confuse students.
- **Implementation Variance:** The success of Common Core often depends on how well teachers understand and convey the concepts.
Despite its differences from traditional math, Common Core aims to create a more robust understanding of mathematics, preparing students for higher-level math and practical problem-solving in diverse fields.
I still see no difference between traditional math and common core. It just looks like a way textbook writers put a new spin on teaching math to sell more textbooks.
Math is math. I learned with traditional math text books and my kids learned with common core math textbooks. I still taught them all the shortcuts and how it applies to real life regardless of how the teacher taught. In fact my oldest is going to graduate in math this spring.
Posted on 1/3/25 at 4:48 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Math is math. I learned with traditional math text books and my kids learned with common core math textbooks. I still taught them all the shortcuts and how it applies to real life regardless of how the teacher taught. In fact my oldest is going to graduate in math this spring.
I think you are missing the problem.
Most students failing to achieve grade level (aka 60% of NY 8th graders) are not being helped at home by parents.
It takes time to learn multiple methods. Now there is less repetition on each method, which leads to a shakier understanding of each method.
Should the parents do more? Sure we can go there, but when we aren't graduating engineers, we have to make do with the people we have.
Popular
Back to top
