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Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:55 pm to Five0
quote:
Five0
One sentence summaries of New Jersey and Pennsylvania state cases doesn't do anything here.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:55 pm to DanTiger
quote:
C'mon man you are really grasping at straws here. If you believe you are not free to leave you are under custodial arrest.
SCOTUS says otherwise.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:56 pm to Five0
quote:
Five0
Not one of those cases has a damn thing to do with what we are talking about. This is an officer safety issue and not one employed to produce evidence for prosecution.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:57 pm to DanTiger
quote:
The only two instances I can think of in this scenario would be if a private citizen searched the car and found the evidence or a faulty search warrant was approved and evidence was still found. Are you really in law school?
A legally possessed gun in a car by citizen that has a valid ccp is evidence of what exactly?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:58 pm to DanTiger
First sentence of the Knowles opinion
hmmmmmmmmmm……………….
quote:
An Iowa police officer stopped petitioner Knowles for speeding, but issued him a citation rather than arresting him.
hmmmmmmmmmm……………….
Posted on 11/13/13 at 12:58 pm to DanTiger
quote:
NY v Belton:
Was adjudicated in 1981. There is a reason I included dates in the cases I cited.
You getting mad?
This post was edited on 11/13/13 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:00 pm to Five0
quote:
Was adjudicated in 1981. There is a reason I included dates in the cases I cited.
It's not applicable here anyway. It deals with searches after an arrest has been made. In our hypothetical, no arrest has been made, regardless of what Dan or boom think. The case law is clear on this issue.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:00 pm to UpToPar
quote:
UpToPar
You have much to learn, law student. You'll lose that arrogance in due time.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:00 pm to Five0
quote:
A legally possessed gun in a car by citizen that has a valid ccp is evidence of what exactly?
Nothing!!! A police officer is not taking a gun that a driver tells him about to secure for evidence he is taking it for his safety. He also will not take a gun that he sees in plainview for evidence he will take it for his safety, unless there are extenuating circumstances suach as the driver being a felon.
It seems that you two are trying to manipulate this every way you can. The two things we have all accepted are that the driver TOLD the officer where the gun was so there was no illegal search and the officer secured the weapon until he left, officer safety issue.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:01 pm to boom roasted
quote:
You have much to learn, law student. You'll lose that arrogance in due time.
Where is your case stating that issuing a citation is a custodial arrest for purposes of a search incident to arrest? Any case decided after Knowles by the US Supreme Court will do.
I'll wait………...
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:02 pm to DanTiger
quote:
It seems that you two are trying to manipulate this every way you can.
It's what law students are best at.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:03 pm to DanTiger
quote:
the driver TOLD the officer where the gun was so there was no illegal search
I don't understand where you are getting this concept from. Telling the officer there is a gun in the console does not equal consenting to a search of the console. Where are you getting this from?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:03 pm to Five0
quote:
Was adjudicated in 1981. There is a reason I included dates in the cases I cited.
You mean the cases that have nothing to do with what we are discussing?
quote:
You getting mad?
Furstrated would be a more suitable word. I also find it funny.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:05 pm to DanTiger
How about the fact that Belton is dealing with a search incident to arrest, which as I have pointed out, is not applicable to this case.
Belton allows an officer to search the immediate vicinity for weapons to insure safety, only after an arrest has been made.
I've never seen a case that allowed this before an arrest has been made under these circumstances. Have you?
Belton allows an officer to search the immediate vicinity for weapons to insure safety, only after an arrest has been made.
I've never seen a case that allowed this before an arrest has been made under these circumstances. Have you?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:07 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Nothing!!!
Exactly. You are seizing legal property without being able to articulate a reason why. What are you going to do when you stop a truck load of hunting buddies one day. They might tell you they all have long guns and knives. One of them might have even brought more than one gun. They tell you this, are you going to take all the guns and such back to your cruiser to right a ticket? What's next, arresting people for carry a concealed weapon if they have a sharpened #2 pencil in their shirt pocket? Could be unsafe.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:07 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Where is your case stating that issuing a citation is a custodial arrest for purposes of a search incident to arrest?
It is a definition for Christ's sake!!! Look up custodial arrest. Good God you are insufferable.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:08 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Not one of those cases has a damn thing to do with what we are talking about. This is an officer safety issue and not one employed to produce evidence for prosecution.
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:08 pm to boom roasted
quote:
You have much to learn, law student. You'll lose that arrogance in due time.
What do you do? And if you practice, what do you practice?
Posted on 11/13/13 at 1:10 pm to Five0
quote:
Exactly. You are seizing legal property without being able to articulate a reason why. What are you going to do when you stop a truck load of hunting buddies one day. They might tell you they all have long guns and knives. One of them might have even brought more than one gun. They tell you this, are you going to take all the guns and such back to your cruiser to right a ticket? What's next, arresting people for carry a concealed weapon if they have a sharpened #2 pencil in their shirt pocket? Could be unsafe.
All of the officers and troopers I have ever worked with realize that each scenario is unique and handled differently. If I remember correctly I believe this is one of the first things they teach at the state academy.
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