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Message
re: Help choosing a rilfe
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:14 am to Raz4back
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:14 am to Raz4back
quote:
When making comparisons between two guns, or two bullet weights for that matter, common sense would tell me that I would compare bullets of the same construction.
I wouldn't compare a winchester xp3 out of one gun with a Remington core loc out of another. Obviously the tranfer of energy is determined by the speed at which a bullet travels and how quickly it stops (which is determined by how much and how quickly it expands) in no way am I discounting science. When the same bullet is fired from two guns, the one that contains more energy will have more killing power. Anyone that disputes that is discounting science.
IMO, that's a fool's comparison. A more powerful or less powerful gun may push a bullet too fast or too slow to allow the bullet construction to do its job.
0
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:22 am to Hawgon
You said on deer. Penetration is not an issue on deer, the same cant be said for a bear. Penetration is achieved through momentum not KE.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:24 am to Raz4back
quote:If you want to use that energy, it most certainly is. What good are the ft-lbs used to penetrate the tree behind the deer?
Penetration is not an issue on deer
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:32 am to AlxTgr
Are you reading what I post? Energy transferred is determined by velocity and How fast a bullet stops. If the bullet blows through a deer and buries in a tree it transferred the majority of its stored energy into the tree. I have never said bullet construction doesn't matter. My argument is that all things being equal, the bullet storing more energy has more killing power. If I didn't think bullet construction mattered I dang sure wouldn't pay $56 for a box of shells.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:35 am to Raz4back
quote:Which can be false and why you should never say it again.
My argument is that all things being equal, the bullet storing more energy has more killing power.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:38 am to Raz4back
quote:
Energy transferred is determined by velocity and How fast a bullet stops. If the bullet blows through a deer and buries in a tree it transferred the majority of its stored energy into the tree.
Really? You shoot a WSM and you've found a bullet that will not completely penetrate a deer? I tell you that is magic because I've never even seen a bullet from a 30-30 that didn't completely penetrate a deer broadside.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 10:48 am to Hawgon
Actually the first 3 deer I killed with it I was using 150gr Winchester supreme ballistic silver tips and none of the 3 had exit wounds. The bullet expanded so violently that it stopped a couple of inches short of exiting. I prefer an exit hole in case the animal needs to be tracked so I switched to 180 gr Winchester supreme xp3s.
There's no reason to be a condescending arse because we disagree.
quote:
I tell you that is magic because I've never even seen a bullet from a 30-30 that didn't completely penetrate a deer broadside.
There's no reason to be a condescending arse because we disagree.
This post was edited on 10/27/11 at 10:54 am
Posted on 10/27/11 at 11:00 am to Raz4back
quote:
Actually the first 3 deer I killed with it I was using 150gr Winchester supreme ballistic silver tips and none of the 3 had exit wounds. The bullet expanded so violently that it stopped a couple of inches short of exiting. I prefer an exit hole in case the animal needs to be tracked so I switched to 180 gr Winchester supreme xp3s.
Expansion would be the wrong word. Disintegration is the right one. The ballistic silvertip has a reputation of coming apart. Lucky you didn't hit those deer in the shoulders as that you might have lost them.
This post was edited on 10/27/11 at 11:05 am
Posted on 10/27/11 at 11:02 am to Hawgon
quote:
Expansion would be the wrong word. Disintigration is the right one. The ballistic silvertip has a reputation of coming apart.
I've always heard that too about those rounds. I stay away from Winchester rifle ammo.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 11:08 am to Slickback
My biggest knock on the short magnums is the availability of ammo. At least in central AR you have 3 choices Winchester ballistic silver tip, winchester xp3, or federal fusions. I haven't tried the fusions, the ballistic silver tips suck, but I have been more than pleased with the xp3s
Posted on 10/27/11 at 11:20 am to Raz4back
quote:
My biggest knock on the short magnums is the availability of ammo. At least in central AR you have 3 choices Winchester ballistic silver tip, winchester xp3, or federal fusions. I haven't tried the fusions, the ballistic silver tips suck, but I have been more than pleased with the xp3s
And so, after dealing with extra recoil and spending $56 for a box of shells, you've now found a load and combination that will stay together in a deer and kill as reliably as a 30-30.
Posted on 10/27/11 at 11:30 am to Hawgon
I don't think a 30-30 would be very effective on a 350 yard shot. If im using a gun im normally set up on a powerline or logging road. I personally wouldn't hunt elk with a 30-30. I'm 6'3" 215lbs so the recoil doesn't bother me.
In all honesty I haven't shot a deer with a gun in 4 years. I bowhunt 90% of the time I'm in the woods. About the only time i chase whitetails with a gun is the first two weekends of modern gun season. After thatduck season opens and our lease is fairly thinned out allowing me to move around with my climber.
I killed an Elk with my rifle a couple of years ago. I don't have the confidence to chase Elk with my bow yet. I don't feel I'm skilled enough at hunting Elk to have a realistic chance at connecting with an arrow.
Keep in mind, I posted earlier that if all I was ever going to use my rifle for was whitetail I'd be shooting a 25-06
In all honesty I haven't shot a deer with a gun in 4 years. I bowhunt 90% of the time I'm in the woods. About the only time i chase whitetails with a gun is the first two weekends of modern gun season. After thatduck season opens and our lease is fairly thinned out allowing me to move around with my climber.
I killed an Elk with my rifle a couple of years ago. I don't have the confidence to chase Elk with my bow yet. I don't feel I'm skilled enough at hunting Elk to have a realistic chance at connecting with an arrow.
Keep in mind, I posted earlier that if all I was ever going to use my rifle for was whitetail I'd be shooting a 25-06
This post was edited on 10/27/11 at 11:33 am
Posted on 10/27/11 at 5:17 pm to 185LSU
Get a Blaser R93, it's a system Riffle. You can switch Calibers by changing barrel and firing head. With the way the scope is mounted on their barrels and you know how to use a scopes zero in reset you can get away with having only 1 scope for 2 different calibers.
I use a 7m08 and a 270WSM (although if I was going to Alaska I would caliber it in a 300WSM or similar)
It's not a cheap gun by any stretch; starts around $1500 when I bought mine 6 years ago. The Addition Barrel/firing Head will a grand. The trigger is phenomenal and so is accuracy. This is the finest shoting gun I've ever owned/shot. Styers/Sakos/Weatherbys/Brownings/Etc
LINK
I use a 7m08 and a 270WSM (although if I was going to Alaska I would caliber it in a 300WSM or similar)
It's not a cheap gun by any stretch; starts around $1500 when I bought mine 6 years ago. The Addition Barrel/firing Head will a grand. The trigger is phenomenal and so is accuracy. This is the finest shoting gun I've ever owned/shot. Styers/Sakos/Weatherbys/Brownings/Etc
LINK
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