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Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:34 pm to Brian12
Anyone who's read history knows the Islam and Caliphates of the Middle Ages were vastly different than they are now. Whether they would have naturally progressed to this stage regardless of the destruction of Baghdad, we'll never know, but it certainly didn't help.
As for Christianity, thanks to the arrival of Jesus and his message the doctrine and alleged theme of Christianity is way more tolerant and peaceful than Islam, particularly as regards non-believers. Of course if we want to look at history, there are tons of examples of Christians not exactly following that message. The conquest of the Americas and the Thirty Years War come to mind as massive losses of life driven in large part, if not mainly, that the opponents were of a different religion or merely a different sect of Christianity.
The main takeaway is dogmatic, mindless religious fervor with no room individuality or common sense is dangerous, regardless of doctrine
As for Christianity, thanks to the arrival of Jesus and his message the doctrine and alleged theme of Christianity is way more tolerant and peaceful than Islam, particularly as regards non-believers. Of course if we want to look at history, there are tons of examples of Christians not exactly following that message. The conquest of the Americas and the Thirty Years War come to mind as massive losses of life driven in large part, if not mainly, that the opponents were of a different religion or merely a different sect of Christianity.
The main takeaway is dogmatic, mindless religious fervor with no room individuality or common sense is dangerous, regardless of doctrine
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:38 pm to Barf
quote:
I got bad news for you, most major religious say the same shite.
Ignorance.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:38 pm to tigerfan88
Jesus will explain to you why Christianity and Islam are not the same. Right before you take the bath in the lake of fire.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
You're quoting an Old Testament Scripture that predates Christianity and Islam both by centuries and has nothing to do with either. How is that schooling me?
Wait. Can you explain to us how you decide which parts of the Old Testament are relevant to Christianity and which ones are dismissed?
How is that not cherry picking to fit your narrative?
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Yes. And protect the Christian populations who were already there.
Source?
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:57 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Yes. And protect the Christian populations who were already there.
Source? Protecting the Byzantine Empire =/= protecting Christians who lived under Muslim rule.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:58 pm to fr33manator
Man you hate brown people more than anyone I've ever seen. It's remarkable really.
I say let's do it but give the Mongols the Jews to kill too.
:rofl:
I say let's do it but give the Mongols the Jews to kill too.
:rofl:
Posted on 11/24/15 at 1:59 pm to NikolaiJakov
It's 2015 and time to stop believing in fairy tales my man.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:00 pm to tigerfan88
quote:
As for Christianity, thanks to the arrival of Jesus and his message the doctrine and alleged theme of Christianity is way more tolerant and peaceful than Islam, particularly as regards non-believers.
The Christian scriptures don't say anything about how Christians are supposed to deal with the political problem of non-Christians, because the Christian scriptures were written when Christians were a tiny minority within an existing empire.
So when Christians gained secular power, they looked to the Hebrew Bible (which was equally revealed, according to mainline Christian teaching) to teach them how to conduct themselves. The results were not pretty.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:02 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
You're quoting an Old Testament Scripture that predates Christianity
They were not by any means saying all people who don’t believe in God should be killed, they were saying: we as individuals and as a group are committing to seek and follow God and if we don’t follow through on this covenant we make with God, we should be put to death.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:03 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
The Christian scriptures don't say anything about how Christians are supposed to deal with the political problem of non-Christians, because the Christian scriptures were written when Christians were a tiny minority within an existing empire.
Depending on how you decide which parts of the bible to follow and which parts to ignore, it lays out exactly what you are supposed to do with non christians. You're supposed to kill them.
quote:
So when Christians gained secular power, they looked to the Hebrew Bible (which was equally revealed, according to mainline Christian teaching) to teach them how to conduct themselves. The results were not pretty.
Excuses are like assholes.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:06 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
So when Christians gained secular power, they looked to the Hebrew Bible (which was equally revealed, according to mainline Christian teaching) to teach them how to conduct themselves. The results were not pretty.
I don't feel like tearing this whole thing down so let's keep it real simple... you're bringing up issues from hundreds of years ago to compare with issues happening right now.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:07 pm to Barf
Huh? The Christian scriptures have exactly nothing to say about what a Christian state would look like, or how it would behave.
And there's a fairly obvious reason for that: the Christians never had any expectation that they would find themselves at the helm of the most powerful empire in the world. It's kind of a big detail to miss for a bunch of guys supposedly inspired by God.
And there's a fairly obvious reason for that: the Christians never had any expectation that they would find themselves at the helm of the most powerful empire in the world. It's kind of a big detail to miss for a bunch of guys supposedly inspired by God.
This post was edited on 11/24/15 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:07 pm to fr33manator
quote:
, but so did places such as Korea and Japan, much closer to home.
Wait, don't act like the Mongols never tried to take Japan. They failed every time.
Twice they lost their fleet to Tsunamis.
The expanded east because they were horse lords and were used to dry arid tundra and plains, as well as mountain passes. These they found going east. IIRC they did take part of Java and Indonesia, but the "divine wind" kept them from taking Japan.
Your post does bring up a good story from History, but the Mongols were much more brutal than the Caliph, just more accepting of other religions.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:09 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
And there's a fairly obvious reason for that: the Christians never had any expectation that they would find themselves at the helm of the most powerful empire in the world. It's kind of a big detail to miss for a bunch of guys supposedly inspired by God.
I've wondered that point as well. Christianity never set out the groundwork, instead we take the Ten Commandments from Exodus and cast out the Laws from Leviticus (except for the gay one).
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:10 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
I don't feel like tearing this whole thing down so let's keep it real simple... you're bringing up issues from hundreds of years ago to compare with issues happening right now.
No, I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's not true that Christianity is "essentially peaceful".
Moreover, it's not true that Muslims are "compelled by their religion" to make war against non-Muslims, and then, once they conquer them, to either convert, enslave, or kill them.
These are all factual matters that are fairly easy to look up for yourself.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:11 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Huh? The Christian scriptures have exactly nothing to say about what a Christian state would look like, or how it would behave.
What about all the scripture detailing how to handle christain apostates? Or do we not take old testament scripture into consideration?
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:17 pm to Barf
quote:
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
I'll address this directly.
The Old Testament covers a time period where the law of God WAS the law of Israel before Christianity. The New Testament teaches "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" (the separation of faith and law).
The Islamic holy books do not allow for separation of faith and law. They are one and the same. Islam is more than just a religion... it's a cultural, religious, and political system.
Posted on 11/24/15 at 2:19 pm to Barf
I tend to believe the Old testament is a big reason why antisemitism was so rampant for so long. I mean look at what is in their bible.... Jeez.
You can be a preacher and preach to a flock and make God sound like a bloodthirsty angry deity, basing it all off of scripture. Likewise you can be a preacher and make God appear to be all about Love and forgiveness. There are denominations that have basis on differing interpretations of scripture. What boggle my mind is how xenophobic people can be. They take the bad and use that to overshadow everything else. Atheist use the bad in the bible against Christians and Christians the same with the Koran to Muslims.
I have to say this is nicer than anything in the bible I am familiar with.
So the Quran acknowledges that their are other paths to heaven besides Islam.
You can be a preacher and preach to a flock and make God sound like a bloodthirsty angry deity, basing it all off of scripture. Likewise you can be a preacher and make God appear to be all about Love and forgiveness. There are denominations that have basis on differing interpretations of scripture. What boggle my mind is how xenophobic people can be. They take the bad and use that to overshadow everything else. Atheist use the bad in the bible against Christians and Christians the same with the Koran to Muslims.
I have to say this is nicer than anything in the bible I am familiar with.
quote:
[Quran 2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
So the Quran acknowledges that their are other paths to heaven besides Islam.
This post was edited on 11/24/15 at 2:19 pm
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