quote:
At a certain point it becomes the responsibility of the individual. Strong QLCS systems often get the "tornado possible" tag. They also can get the "destructive thunderstorm" tag for winds in excess of 80mph. I'll tell you a secret, it doesn't matter if winds are rotating or not......80+ mph winds can do similar damage as a low-end tornado. People regularly ignore those warnings, though.

That’s a good point about straight line winds. At 80+ mph trees snap.

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Posted by FairhopeTider

Fairhope, Alabama

Member since May 2012

20770 posts

Posted on 12/11/23 at 10:58 pm to LegendInMyMind

quote:
Is this really an issue? I'm in north AL, dealt with 4/27/11, and we don't shut down like that.

In Birmingham Metro it has definitely become an issue. Happens once or twice a year where businesses and schools close down for the day and nothing happens.

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Posted by Wishnitwas1998

where TN, MS, and AL meet

Member since Oct 2010

58274 posts

Posted on 12/12/23 at 12:10 am to East Coast Band

quote:
Then a tornado warning should have been issued. Plenty of times a tornado is never confirmed in a tornado warning, just a radar indicated one. Not sure who all would have done things differently since it occurred so late

They've gone this route before, in fact NWS Memphis still goes this route and just Tornado warns entire lines, it leads to tornado warnings being ignored bc of all the false alarms

Coincidentally which is the same reason severe thunderstorm warnings are ignored by most people bc so, so many of them don't verify as severe

The solution is to reduce FAR of both types. All NWS offices should focus on it

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Posted by LegendInMyMind

Member since Apr 2019

54369 posts

Posted on 12/12/23 at 6:20 pm to FairhopeTider

quote:

Tornado #1 Homewood Tornado (Jefferson County)...
Rating: EF1
Estimated Peak Wind: 100 mph Path Length /statute/: 3.02 miles
Path Width /maximum/: 600 yards
Fatalities: 0
Injuries: 0 Start
Date: 12/10/2023
Start Time: 12:09 AM CST Start Location: 2 SW Homewood / Jefferson County / AL
Start Lat/Lon: 33.4434 / -86.837
End Date: 12/10/2023
End Time: 12:12 AM CST
End Location: Samford University / Jefferson County / AL
End Lat/Lon: 33.4682 / -86.7951

quote:

.Tornado #2 Brookwood Village Tornado (Jefferson County)...
Rating: EF1
Estimated Peak
Wind: 90 mph
Path Length /statute/: 1.78 miles
Path Width /maximum/: 200 yards
Fatalities: 0
Injuries: 0
Start Date: 12/10/2023
Start Time: 12:13 AM CST
Start Location: Samford University / Jefferson County / AL Start Lat/Lon: 33.4685 / -86.7849
End Date: 12/10/2023
End Time: 12:15 AM CST
End Location: 1 SW Mountain Brook / Jefferson County / AL
End Lat/Lon: 33.4772 / -86.7559

The official survey for both Birmingham area tornadoes is in. The first tornado was on the ground for three minutes. The second tornado was on the ground for two minutes.

Depending on how the radar scans worked, these likely never even showed up on radar. What did show up on radar was the wind. What was known by the NWS was that the environment had decent shear and a storm mode that could support brief tornadoes. They covered both threats in the Severe Thunderstorm Warning that was issued.

Here is the survey results for damage resulting from the STS winds:

quote:

Overview...
A storm system moved through Alabama late on December 10 and into the early morning hours of December 11. Widespread wind damage was reported in the Birmingham metro area, along with four brief tornadoes, two in Jefferson County, one in Barbour County, and one in Lee County.

Straight-line Wind Damage #1 (Jefferson County)... Rating: TSTM/Wind
Estimated Peak Wind: 60-70 mph
Path Width /maximum/: 3.6 miles
Fatalities: 0
Injuries: 0
Start Date: 12/10/2023
Start Time: 12:04 AM CST Start Location: Oxmoor Valley / Jefferson County / AL Start Lat/Lon: 33.4179 / -86.865
End Date: 12/10/2023
End Time: 12:22 AM CST
End Location: 2 ESE Irondale / Jefferson County / AL
End Lat/Lon: 33.5236 / -86.6698

This highlights the importance of paying attention to Severe Thunderstorm Warnings, particularly with a QLCS event. There will always be some threat for spin-up tornadoes. Radar simply isn't good enough to catch them all. Personal responsibility must be taken in the instances. You will not always get warning with these type storms. I usually always state this fact in weather threads when we have these type systems roll through.

This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 6:24 pm

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