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Message
re: NDE Near Death Experience
Posted on 12/10/22 at 4:55 pm to Tigers2010a
Posted on 12/10/22 at 4:55 pm to Tigers2010a
Jeffrey Long, MD, USA, an oncologist, cited 9 evidences for the reality of NDEs based on research data.
There is no generally accepted definition of a near-death experience. NDE definitions have been used with some variability for more than 35 years, Long writes. Although no two NDEs are the same, there are characteristics that are commonly observed in this case.
These characteristics include seeing and hearing outside of the physical body, going into or through a tunnel, encountering mystical light, intense and generally positive emotions, reviewing some or all of one’s previous life experiences, encountering deceased loved ones, and the choice to return to your earthly life.
During a long study, the expert collected 9 evidence in favor of the fact that near-death experiences are real.
Considering NDE both medically and logically, unconscious people should not often report very clear experiences that are logically structured.
Therefore, the scientist believes, it works in favor of the reality of this experience.
“Near-death experiences often occur in connection with cardiac arrest. Previous studies have shown that 10-20 seconds after cardiac arrest, electroencephalogram measurements typically do not detect significant measurable electrical activity in the cerebral cortex.
“Prolonged, detailed, conscious experience after cardiac arrest should not be possible, but this is reported in many NDEs. This is especially noticeable given the long period of amnesia that usually precedes and follows recovery from cardiac arrest,” Long explains.
Seeing current events from a place other than the physical body in an unconscious state (out of body experience)
A common characteristic of near-death experiences is also out-of-body experience – this is an obvious separation of consciousness from the body.
About 45% of those who experience see and hear current earth events from a vantage point that is separate from and usually above their physical bodies.
After cardiac arrest, the people interviewed saw and then accurately described their own resuscitation.
Near-Death Experiences with Vision in the Blind and Supernatural Vision
Vision in near-death experiences who are blind, including those who are completely blind from birth, has been described in many case reports.
This, along with the conclusion that vision in NDE is usually different from normal everyday vision and is often described as supernormal, also suggests that NDE cannot be explained by our current understanding of brain function.
Near-Death Experiences Under General Anesthesia
Under adequate general anesthesia, it should not be possible to have a clear, organized memory, Long emphasized.
This is shown by studies using EEG and functional brain imaging of patients performed under general anesthesia.
They provide substantial evidence that the brain under anesthesia should not produce conscious memories.
Near-Death Experiences and Life Reviews
Some near-death experiences involve a review of some or all of their previous lives. Life review may include awareness of what others felt and thought at the time they interacted with them.
This previously unknown realization of what other people felt or thought when they interacted with them is extremely surprising.
Encountering Deceased Loved Ones in NDEs
NDEs can describe encounters with people they knew during their earthly lives. It is noteworthy that people who saw a person they thought was alive, in fact, had recently died, reported cases.
These cases illustrate that NDEs cannot be explained by the experiencer’s expectation of what will happen during the life-threatening event.
Near-Death Experiences in Young Children
Very young children have near-death experiences that are strikingly similar to those of older children and adults.
This is further evidence that NDEs occur independently of pre-existing cultural beliefs, religious training, or awareness of the existence of NDEs.
Cross-cultural NDE research
The absence of significant differences in NDE content worldwide is consistent with the concept that NDEs occur independently of physical brain function as currently understood. Thus, the experience does not depend on the place of residence, religion and other factors.
Near-death experiences after effects
After near-death experiences, there are usually significant changes in people’s lives, which are called the consequences of the event.
Notably, NDEs often occur within just a few minutes of unconsciousness, but usually result in significant and lifelong transformations in beliefs and values.
Conclusion
“A combination of the previous nine lines of evidence converges to the conclusion that NDEs are medically inexplicable. Any one or more of the nine lines of evidence would probably be strong enough for many, but the combination of all of the nine lines of evidence presented provides strong evidence that NDEs are, in a word, real,” the MD concluded.
There is no generally accepted definition of a near-death experience. NDE definitions have been used with some variability for more than 35 years, Long writes. Although no two NDEs are the same, there are characteristics that are commonly observed in this case.
These characteristics include seeing and hearing outside of the physical body, going into or through a tunnel, encountering mystical light, intense and generally positive emotions, reviewing some or all of one’s previous life experiences, encountering deceased loved ones, and the choice to return to your earthly life.
During a long study, the expert collected 9 evidence in favor of the fact that near-death experiences are real.
Considering NDE both medically and logically, unconscious people should not often report very clear experiences that are logically structured.
Therefore, the scientist believes, it works in favor of the reality of this experience.
“Near-death experiences often occur in connection with cardiac arrest. Previous studies have shown that 10-20 seconds after cardiac arrest, electroencephalogram measurements typically do not detect significant measurable electrical activity in the cerebral cortex.
“Prolonged, detailed, conscious experience after cardiac arrest should not be possible, but this is reported in many NDEs. This is especially noticeable given the long period of amnesia that usually precedes and follows recovery from cardiac arrest,” Long explains.
Seeing current events from a place other than the physical body in an unconscious state (out of body experience)
A common characteristic of near-death experiences is also out-of-body experience – this is an obvious separation of consciousness from the body.
About 45% of those who experience see and hear current earth events from a vantage point that is separate from and usually above their physical bodies.
After cardiac arrest, the people interviewed saw and then accurately described their own resuscitation.
Near-Death Experiences with Vision in the Blind and Supernatural Vision
Vision in near-death experiences who are blind, including those who are completely blind from birth, has been described in many case reports.
This, along with the conclusion that vision in NDE is usually different from normal everyday vision and is often described as supernormal, also suggests that NDE cannot be explained by our current understanding of brain function.
Near-Death Experiences Under General Anesthesia
Under adequate general anesthesia, it should not be possible to have a clear, organized memory, Long emphasized.
This is shown by studies using EEG and functional brain imaging of patients performed under general anesthesia.
They provide substantial evidence that the brain under anesthesia should not produce conscious memories.
Near-Death Experiences and Life Reviews
Some near-death experiences involve a review of some or all of their previous lives. Life review may include awareness of what others felt and thought at the time they interacted with them.
This previously unknown realization of what other people felt or thought when they interacted with them is extremely surprising.
Encountering Deceased Loved Ones in NDEs
NDEs can describe encounters with people they knew during their earthly lives. It is noteworthy that people who saw a person they thought was alive, in fact, had recently died, reported cases.
These cases illustrate that NDEs cannot be explained by the experiencer’s expectation of what will happen during the life-threatening event.
Near-Death Experiences in Young Children
Very young children have near-death experiences that are strikingly similar to those of older children and adults.
This is further evidence that NDEs occur independently of pre-existing cultural beliefs, religious training, or awareness of the existence of NDEs.
Cross-cultural NDE research
The absence of significant differences in NDE content worldwide is consistent with the concept that NDEs occur independently of physical brain function as currently understood. Thus, the experience does not depend on the place of residence, religion and other factors.
Near-death experiences after effects
After near-death experiences, there are usually significant changes in people’s lives, which are called the consequences of the event.
Notably, NDEs often occur within just a few minutes of unconsciousness, but usually result in significant and lifelong transformations in beliefs and values.
Conclusion
“A combination of the previous nine lines of evidence converges to the conclusion that NDEs are medically inexplicable. Any one or more of the nine lines of evidence would probably be strong enough for many, but the combination of all of the nine lines of evidence presented provides strong evidence that NDEs are, in a word, real,” the MD concluded.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:01 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Proof of what? That death, being dead, is an absolute. It’s self-explanatory. No proof from me is needed.
You are the most religious person in this thread fyi
quote:
Well, I understand now. You subscribe to religion and philosophy. I don’t. I put my trust in the pursuit of answers in science only. I don’t have any beliefs in anything because to believe means to accept something without having any physical evidence.
You don’t have any physical evidence of what happens after we die. Like I said you are the most religious person in this thread. You are the one most convinced of your beliefs in something without evidence. That’s called faith. Wether it’s faith in god or faith in “science” that you can’t prove makes no difference.
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:06 pm to Tigers2010a
quote:There are stories that the dead person describes extreme detail of her sister and what she was wearing and saying driving in the rain to the hospital to see her.
After cardiac arrest, the people interviewed saw and then accurately described their own resuscitation.
As well as things that the medical people said, what they were wearing in extreme detail-from a person that was dead. In most cases the dead person never being in that hospital to know anyone there.
One lady documented to her husband only a detail of her NDE and it happened IRL after she survived and continued life.
i e....She told her husband that while she was in the NDE she saw her then young son as a grown man at his son's soccer game saying, he is so glad he can be a dad his real dad wasn't. And it happened exactly IRL years later.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:10 pm to cajunangelle
I’m not sure if this counts but I flipped a 1976 pinto and a large stump stopped me from going in the bayou. Also had a tree come right through my trailer during IDA. I was like two feet from a large branch that if it had landed on me I would not be here…
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:13 pm to LCA131
quote:
So the mind is a physical organ?
Yes, the mind is a synonym for the brain. What else could it be?
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:25 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You are the most religious person in this thread fyi
Why would you be snide? This has been a civil conversation to this point.
quote:
You don’t have any physical evidence of what happens after we die
Well, the scientific evidence that I accept is that our bodies decay. That’s universal, by the way. Mummification, or other forms of preservation can keep the decay to a minimum for a time but decay prevails in every instance.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:42 pm to Tigers2010a
quote:
That is all fine but you must admit that without evidence or logic, your belief there is no God is based purely on faith and desire while ignoring evidence and logic?
I categorize God right in there with ghosts, Bigfoot, alien visitors, and other similar entities that all have their believers and eyewitnesses but no hard evidence.
The only difference is God’s followers are more vocal, more numerous, more bigoted, and more political. Even toward each other. And God doesn’t seem particularly interested in sorting things out, either.
I gave religion a shot. I have read the Bible and studied other religions. I have been to where Jesus was supposedly born (Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem), was baptized (Al-Maghtas near Amman, Jordan), died/resurrected (Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem), and ascended to Heaven (Chapel of the Ascension atop the Mount of Olives). I have walked the Via Dolorosa. I have stood by Jews praying at the Western Wall and been all the way inside the Well of Souls in the Foundation Stone at the Temple Mount. I have stood atop Mt. Nebo in Jordan where Moses supposedly saw the Promised Land. I have walked the hilltop ruins of the Fortress of Macaerus where John the Baptist is believed to have been executed. I have been to dozens of the most significant Christian churches, including St. Peter’s Basilica.
I gave it all a shot. but I’m not a believer. If only I prayed as hard as a typical Christian who’s never even heard of most of places I just mentioned, I would be.
*eye roll*
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 12/10/22 at 5:54 pm to Globetrotter747
Some of us just can’t accept that which cannot be described using the scientific method.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 6:02 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Why would you be snide? This has been a civil conversation to this point.
Didn’t mean to be. I can relate because I used to think like you. So utterly convinced in something I realized I had no proof of. I realized that was faith.
You keep saying you know what happens after we die because of scientific evidence. That’s clearly not true. Since you don’t have evidence, you have faith, as much as any Christian. You just haven’t accepted it yet. Notice I’m not saying you are wrong because I don’t know, and I believe that no one knows or can prove their argument.
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 12/10/22 at 6:06 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Some of us just can’t accept that which cannot be described using the scientific method.
Can you describe using the scientific method what consciousness is and what constitutes a subjective experience?
Also, why is consciousness necessary? What evolutionary advantage does it provide over a non conscious robot brain. We could perform all of the same functions without a subjective experience.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 6:25 pm to Kentucker
quote:
What else could it be?
The mind is a non-physical portion of our existence. No one has gotten a tumor on their mind. Their mind wasn't struck by a bullet. Those things happen to the brain which is a physical portion of our existence.
The problem that I have with science and the scientific method is it is seemingly unwilling to admit when it's wrong. The greatest minds on this earth 500 years ago thought the sun revolved around us instead of what is real. They felt like spontaneous generation was a thing because they saw a rat come from underneath a pile of rags. They were wrong.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 6:27 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:
I categorize God right in there with ghosts, Bigfoot, alien visitors, and other similar entities that all have their believers and eyewitnesses but no hard evidence.
The only difference is God’s followers are more vocal, more numerous, more bigoted, and more political. Even toward each other. And God doesn’t seem particularly interested in sorting things out, either.
I gave religion a shot. I have read the Bible and studied other religions. I have been to where Jesus was supposedly born (Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem), was baptized (Al-Maghtas near Amman, Jordan), died/resurrected (Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem), and ascended to Heaven (Chapel of the Ascension atop the Mount of Olives). I have walked the Via Dolorosa. I have stood by Jews praying at the Western Wall and been all the way inside the Well of Souls in the Foundation Stone at the Temple Mount. I have stood atop Mt. Nebo in Jordan where Moses supposedly saw the Promised Land. I have walked the hilltop ruins of the Fortress of Macaerus where John the Baptist is believed to have been executed. I have been to dozens of the most significant Christian churches, including St. Peter’s Basilica.
I gave it all a shot. but I’m not a believer. If only I prayed as hard as a typical Christian who’s never even heard of most of places I just mentioned, I would be.
*eye roll*
If a human soul had never visited any of those places it would not affect their Christianity.
Because you did visit those places, and you flock your feathers like a peacock regarding people praying hard enough.
You seem to fail to realize the basic concept of your denied faith & arrogance-is faith. For if you did not have faith you would not deny heaven to begin with.
Where there is light there is darkness, where there is good there is evil.
The devil himself has been to those places, and knows each meaning and location like the stations of the cross-- does it make him holy?
The devil himself has faith because without it he could not have fallen from Heaven in despair.
To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible. St. Thomas Aquinas
Posted on 12/10/22 at 7:14 pm to cajunangelle
Paul Harvey if I were the devil speaking now and comparing it to what he said at the time that he said
It is fricking scary.
It is fricking scary.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 7:23 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
Near-Death Experiences Under General Anesthesia Under adequate general anesthesia, it should not be possible to have a clear, organized memory, Long emphasized.
My wife was having a minor outpatient procedure that went south and she coded. They started cpr and called an ambulance. After putting a timeline together, it looks like she went at least @10 minutes before they got her heart started. They called me 45 minutes later when she was on the way to hospital to tell me what happened. When I got to the ER, she was just coming too. She was mumbling that is was ok and she was ready to go. Later on in the ICU, when she had a clearer head, I asked her what she was talking about.
Her recollection was she remembered being in a big room with a bunch of people all talking to each other. They were all excited and waiting to go somewhere. She said she doesn’t remember what they were talking about but it was a great, happy conversation and she felt so good.
I asked her who she was talking to and she said two young men that seemed to be @ 18 years old and she described them as wearing plaid shirts. Next thing she remembers was waking up in the ER.
What was is interesting is we lost twins during a pregnancy @ 16 years ago.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 7:41 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible. St. Thomas Aquinas
Actually what happens is people have their minds fortified at a young age by their family and culture. This is why if you know someone’s background, you can almost always guess their religion.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 7:53 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
I can relate because I used to think like you.
You can’t have thought like me because you aren’t me.
quote:
You keep saying you know what happens after we die because of scientific evidence.
Correct. Scientific evidence is observable and reproducible.
quote:
That’s clearly not true. Since you don’t have evidence, you have faith, as much as any Christian.
Why does it take faith to know what happens when a body dies. The evidence is there to see. The body decays.
I don’t understand your thrust.
quote:
You just haven’t accepted it yet.
Haven’t accepted what? That there is something more than what can be observed? Something supernatural?
If that’s your intimation, then you’re correct. I will not accept something that fails the scrutiny of the scientific method.
quote:
Notice I’m not saying you are wrong because I don’t know, and I believe that no one knows or can prove their argument.
Argument? No one in the scientific community is arguing with anybody. Science gives all the answers one needs about existence. There is no need for philosophy to offer possibilities or deductions.
Humanity now has the ability to answer questions using science.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 8:35 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Why does it take faith to know what happens when a body dies. The evidence is there to see. The body decays.
quote:
Humanity now has the ability to answer questions using science.
People knew that dead people decayed long before “modern science” confirmed that for us.
What are you really trying to say?
Posted on 12/10/22 at 8:56 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Argument? No one in the scientific community is arguing with anybody. Science gives all the answers one needs about existence. There is no need for philosophy to offer possibilities or deductions.
Then answer my questions above about consciousness and while you are at it can you tell me why there is something rather than nothing?
Science doesn’t have all the answers. Even the most ardent scientists will admit that. And before you put me in a box I have a degree in medicine so I’m well aware of the workings of the human body.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:04 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Science gives all the answers one needs about existence.
Quite a claim. What is science? Who is science? How does science “give?” Is science alive? Does it have a consciousness? A will?
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:09 pm to Telecaster
quote:
I died on the operation table while having an emergency heart catheter procedure. I was wide awake during the procedure, talking SEC football with the cardiologist. Then I just seemed to go to sleep. I woke up to hearing the doctor and nurses calling my name frantically. They said my heart stopped for 75 seconds. It was like a fade out and fade in. I was never sedated or given anesthesia. I didn’t see the tunnel and saw no light. It did change my life - my faith was cemented that day.
quote:
Telecaster
Can I have your guitars when you kick the bucket?
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