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re: Myth Busters/Can a plane take off on a conveyor belt
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:12 pm to xLxSxUxFxAxNx
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:12 pm to xLxSxUxFxAxNx
quote:
i said if plane move it takes off.
if it doesn't move it doesn't take off.
That's not a valid answer. The question is, does the plane take off or not. The possible answers are yes and no. If you have to ask whether or not the plane moves, you don't get it.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:12 pm to Colonel Hapablap
quote:
right. but the plane would move, the wheels and conveyor belt would just destroy themselves. The plane would still take off.
I think that depends on whether the wheels or the conveyor belt gives out first.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:13 pm to LSUBoo
Here is another problem with the scenario.
If the plane's engines (prop or jet) start to move the plane forward (relative to the ground), then the treadmill WILL NOT be able to match the speed of the wheels.
It CAN NOT happen. So, truthfully, the experiment cannot be produced accurately.
The speed of the wheels will will always equal the spead of the treadmill (in the opposite direction) PLUS the forward speed of the plane - even as the speeds increase to infinity.
In real life, the thrust of the jets, or the push of the propellors on the air, will cause the plane to move forward relative to the ground, just like normal, regardless of how fast the wheels and/or treadmill are turning.
If the plane's engines (prop or jet) start to move the plane forward (relative to the ground), then the treadmill WILL NOT be able to match the speed of the wheels.
It CAN NOT happen. So, truthfully, the experiment cannot be produced accurately.
The speed of the wheels will will always equal the spead of the treadmill (in the opposite direction) PLUS the forward speed of the plane - even as the speeds increase to infinity.
In real life, the thrust of the jets, or the push of the propellors on the air, will cause the plane to move forward relative to the ground, just like normal, regardless of how fast the wheels and/or treadmill are turning.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:13 pm to tigernurse
quote:
i am really not interested enough in the topic at hand to search for the list.
I just posted it, woman.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:13 pm to ags01
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
dat is ma gesss yeah
dat is ma gesss yeah
This post was edited on 12/6/07 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:13 pm to xLxSxUxFxAxNx
quote:
no i didn't.
i said if plane move it takes off.
if it doesn't move it doesn't take off.
i even kept it simple for you.
the jet moves reguardless if there is no physical resistance to the body of the plane.
the speed of the wheels and the conveyor belt would just have to gradually increase together until the plane takes off.
okay, then we're on the same page... good for you!
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:14 pm to Colonel Hapablap
quote:
Colonel Hapablap
are you really that emtional about the subject you respond to a post after only read the first half?
or just that dumb?
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:15 pm to Colonel Hapablap
quote:
If you have to ask whether or not the plane moves, you don't get it.
maybe you're assuming a particular porpulsion system. What if they aren't using a jet engine, but a car with airofoils - so the power to move comes from the wheels (they aren't just acting as frictionless bearings). If that is the case, then the treadmill could match the speed of the plane - thus no net forward motion, thus no lift off.
If the power to move is independent of the wheels (and they serve as frictionless bearings), then the plane would move despite the treadmill and liftoff.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:16 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
The speed of the wheels will will always equal the spead of the treadmill (in the opposite direction) PLUS the forward speed of the plane - even as the speeds increase to infinity.
Yeah, that's what we were just saying... it's impossible.
The real question in that scenario is whether the treadmill or wheels break first?
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:17 pm to LSUBoo
treadmill is more likely because of the mechanics. more moving parts, more likely something will screw up.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:23 pm to xLxSxUxFxAxNx
quote:
are you really that emtional about the subject you respond to a post after only read the first half?
or just that dumb?
I'm not arguing with your clarification, I'm arguing with your initial response.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:32 pm to Colonel Hapablap
Ok boys and girls, then engines move the plane forward, the wheels have nothing to do with it, neither do pontoons, they are simply the medium with which the plane comes into contact with its landing surface. A plane can move forward all it wants with the engines, but unless you have airflow over the entire length of the wing, something that can ONLY be done by the plain moving forward relative to the air, it will not lift off the ground. It's pretty simple physics. Engines do not pull air over the wing, they pull air into the engine to provide thrust, to move the plane forward. This is how a plane works, the engines move the plane forward, when they go fast enough, the air flow around the wing, provides lift and up, up and away we go. Thrust does not increase as the planes speed increases, for the most part thrust is constant and the use of flaps on the wing, change the way the air flows around the wing and this gives you lift. The plane will go forward, I'm not arguing with that, but it won't take off. I know no one is going to side with me, but those are the facts and it's not very hard to research.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:33 pm to NYC Tiger
quote:
What if they aren't using a jet engine, but a car with airofoils - so the power to move comes from the wheels (they aren't just acting as frictionless bearings).
If the propulsion system is wheels based, it will never take off regardless...
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:36 pm to VanRIch
quote:
A plane can move forward all it wants with the engines, but unless you have airflow over the entire length of the wing, something that can ONLY be done by the plain moving forward relative to the air, it will not lift off the ground.
...
The plane will go forward, I'm not arguing with that, but it won't take off.
hmmm, lemme check.
Yep, you're on the list.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:39 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Here is another problem with the scenario.
If the plane's engines (prop or jet) start to move the plane forward (relative to the ground), then the treadmill WILL NOT be able to match the speed of the wheels.
It CAN NOT happen. So, truthfully, the experiment cannot be produced accurately.
Exactly. Which is why I said that I know why and how the plane takes off, but the way it's worded (or was originally worded) makes it an impossible scenario.
I really have to remind myself to set my DVR to tape this show.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:43 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I really have to remind myself to set my DVR to tape this show.
I tried a few days ago... didn't have that episode listed yet... need to check again this evening.
I still don't think they can accurately test this full-scale... even using an ultra-light aircraft. Computer-modeling will work, but I doubt computer modeling will convince the stubborn skeptics.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:44 pm to LSUBoo
Ya'll still having this intelligence penis envy argument?
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:46 pm to White Shadeaux
quote:
Ya'll still having this intelligence penis envy argument?
Every few days someone comes in with same 'the plane can't move forward on a treadmill, it can't fly' line...
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:47 pm to LSUBoo
Posted on 12/6/07 at 1:49 pm to White Shadeaux
I still haven't seen that movie...
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