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Message
re: LA National Guardsman Allowed Arlington Cemetery Burial
Posted on 6/13/15 at 2:29 pm to kengel2
Posted on 6/13/15 at 2:29 pm to kengel2
quote:
That training was probably more dangerous than what most military members will ever do.
Not really. It was a standard training op. Pilot error. There was nothing special about the training that made it anymore dangerous. Pilot got disoriented and flew his plane into the ground. Nothing less, nothing more.
I'm not trying to take away from their service. They all served honorably but let's not make this into more than it is
1
Posted on 6/13/15 at 2:38 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Not really. It was a standard training op. Pilot error. There was nothing special about the training that made it anymore dangerous. Pilot got disoriented and flew his plane into the ground. Nothing less, nothing more.
I'm not trying to take away from their service. They all served honorably but let's not make this into more than it is
You ever did amphibious insertions/extractions in a foggy enough environment you had to use NVGs to see during the daytime?
ETA: Not being a smartass, just asking.
This post was edited on 6/13/15 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 6/13/15 at 2:43 pm to kengel2
quote:
You ever did amphibious insertions/extractions in a foggy enough environment you had to use NVGs to see during the daytime?
No. My point stands. I didn't insult anyone. They were fine soldiers I'm sure. But what I said happened is what happened. The difficulty if a training op has nothing to do with getting into Arlington.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 2:53 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
No. My point stands. I didn't insult anyone. They were fine soldiers I'm sure. But what I said happened is what happened. The difficulty if a training op has nothing to do with getting into Arlington.
Read my edit, didnt mean to insinuate you were insulting anyone. I get it was a training accident, I just believe training with those high speed types is inherently more dangerous than the majority of training normal infantry or on combat arms receives. The battlefield is changing, these Delta/MARSOC/etc etc are going to be getting more and more work than anyone else. Maybe it doesnt have anything to do with getting into arlington, but maybe it should since its obviously a place for special people.
ETA: I dont really have a dog in this fight either, just dont see the big fuss. I dont really care where Im buried.
This post was edited on 6/13/15 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:00 pm to kengel2
I haven't followed the story extremely closely but from what I understand it wasn't a necessarily a particularly dangerous training op just because of who the passengers were. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, is that the visibility was marginal and in that in between time between dawn and daylight, or dusk and night. The pilot got vertigo and flew into the water. I think the weather was marginal enough to cancel the op. I know we say we have to train like we fight, and in combat you just may have to do that op in fog or at night but we lost a lot of highly skilled people and an expensive helicopter because they went when they probably should've just waited.
And no, I just can't get on board with Sof forces getting allowed into Arlington over regular guys because their training may be more dangerous.
And no, I just can't get on board with Sof forces getting allowed into Arlington over regular guys because their training may be more dangerous.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:02 pm to kengel2
I don't think the soldier cares where he is buried either. It's more about his parents complaining/protesting enough and getting their win via social media outcry. There must be written standards or criteria to get in.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:06 pm to redbullwings
quote:
There must be written standards or criteria to get in.
I agree, so quit allowing spouses and capitol police to be buried there and keep it for military members only.
quote:
I don't think the soldier cares where he is buried either. It's more about his parents complaining/protesting enough and getting their win via social media outcry.
Well if we are going to allow the above 2 to get in, then why shouldn't he be buried there? His service was more to what Arlington is about then whatever they did?
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:07 pm to redbullwings
quote:
I don't think the soldier cares where he is buried either. It's more about his parents
this, what's wrong with BR National Cemetery? seems like it would be easier to visit the grave site, assuming his folks still live there
This post was edited on 6/13/15 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:11 pm to 777Tiger
LINK
quote:From wiki, but shows all of the criteria and it's states it pretty clear that he shouldn't have been allowed in.
The persons specified below are eligible for ground burial in Arlington National Cemetery, unless otherwise prohibited.[83] The last period of active duty of former members of the armed forces must have ended honorably. Interment may be of casketed or cremated remains.
Any active-duty member of the armed forces (except those members serving on active duty for training only).
Any veteran who is retired and eligible for retirement pay from service in the armed forces (including service members retired from a reserve component who served a period of active duty (other than for training)).
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:12 pm to redbullwings
It doesn't bother me where he's buried. It brings peace to the family and harms no one. In a week no one besides the family will remember this controversy. His body laying there doesn't cheapen any other grave.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:14 pm to 777Tiger
I went to HS and college with TC. He's from Deridder not BR. Father was a green beret as well. He loved serving for his country and anyone that knew him would agree with that statement. I'm obviously biased but I think he deserves the honor of being buried in Arlington.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:14 pm to redbullwings
Also, if you read more about the cemetery you'll see that they are constantly dedicating new lands/forests to make more room for soldiers. It's not like they have ample room for this.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:14 pm to redbullwings
quote:
From wiki, but shows all of the criteria and it's states it pretty clear that he shouldn't have been allowed in.
damn! I'm going to mark my plot!
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:16 pm to redbullwings
What some on here fail to realize, is that the active duty soldiers that died with him can be buried there. The only reason he wasn't allowed to begin with was he was National Guard and not in an active duty status. If he was in active duty status, he would be allowed from the jump. I agree that he should be buried there and I am glad it was changed to allow him.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:18 pm to Sterling Archer
quote:
I went to HS and college with TC. He's from Deridder not BR.
oh, I was just going on the article, wonder if Buddy had any input in the appeal to get him in Arlington?
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:20 pm to iwasthere
From what I read, they shouldn't be either. It stated
quote:I am not expert by any means on the active duty status of armed forces, but it seams that they were training.
(except those members serving on active duty for training only)
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:20 pm to iwasthere
I think the requirement should be 20 years of service or killed in action or at least have served in an active combat zone.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:21 pm to redbullwings
You are reading it wrong. Those soldiers were on active duty even if they weren't training. That rule means someone called to active duty for training only, and then are back off active duty once the training is over.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:25 pm to iwasthere
Ok, so the other soldiers were on active duty and not just active duty for only training like he was? Then fine they fall under the rules of being allowed in. He obviously doesn't fall under the same Active Duty as them. So don't bend the rules to allow him in. Rules are rules. They were established for a reason.
Posted on 6/13/15 at 3:30 pm to redbullwings
Stop with the rules are rules bs. If a cop gave you a ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit you would complain.
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