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re: History of the Swastika; How does it parallel the Confederate Flag?
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:48 pm to pankReb
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:48 pm to pankReb
quote:
This is like giving credit to the first bar to serve alcohol after Prohibition ended....
Something like that. Anthony Johnson was technically the first "legal" slave owner... but he was not the first to own slaves.
0
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:50 pm to stbpike24
I'm pretty sure that slavery as a legal concept predates 1600.
Probably by at least 1000 years.
Probably by at least 1000 years.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:54 pm to stbpike24
quote:What does this have to do with the Confederate battle flag? About as much as Buddha wearing a swastika
This was until a black man named Anthony Johnson went to the court and got the right to keep his black indentured servant for life thus making him the first legal slave. This right was not given to white people until 5 years later. The more you know****
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:55 pm to tigerfoot
Sorry, yeah... let's get this thread back on track
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:56 pm to tigerfoot
Because people are trying to say that the confederate battle flag is a racist symbol because it was used by the confederacy as they tried to keep slavery legal which was racist. Difficult to be racist when both races were slave owners and fighting for the same cause.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:59 pm to stbpike24
quote:
You do realize that the KKK use the American flag as well. So the one flag you care about it also associated with the rag you are willing to throw out. Also crosses are used by the clan, so if you are christian then that should offend you as well. But I guess it only offends out of convenience.
If you cant differentiate between the two flags, I don't know what to tell you
The Cross, the American flag, and the Confederate flag.
One of these is not like the other.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:01 pm to stbpike24
No....people have a problem with the flag because it's an oppressive symbol.
there is a difference and your example proves that. You're trying to justify it that a black man owned a slave as if that makes it ok....while completely ignoring the most important part of your example.....a slave was owned.
there is a difference and your example proves that. You're trying to justify it that a black man owned a slave as if that makes it ok....while completely ignoring the most important part of your example.....a slave was owned.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:01 pm to stbpike24
quote:
Because people are trying to say that the confederate battle flag is a racist symbol because it was used by the confederacy as they tried to keep slavery legal which was racist.
Well, the folks pushing for secession certainly didn't care much for the African race.
Here is a quote from Commissioner Stephen Hale of Alabama to the state of Kentucky as he pushed for secession:
quote:
"Republican victory (Lincoln) is nothing less than an open declaration of war, for the triumph of this new theory of government destroys the property of the South, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a San Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations and her wives and daughters to pollution and violation to gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans"
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:02 pm to tigerfoot
Oh so it's only the one that YOU associate it with that should matter? Why doesnt all things used represent the same thing.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:04 pm to stbpike24
quote:
confederate battle flag is a racist symbol because it was used by the confederacy as they tried to keep slavery legal which was racist. Difficult to be racist when both races were slave owners and fighting for the same cause.
Again, so?
If one thinks a symbol is racist symbol, well then guess what, it is...and given that it means nothing, what is the harm in doing away with it. What is the issue. The Confederacy and its war failed, it is over and has been over for 150 years, the flag has no meaning other than folks perception.
In the war of perception of the CURRENT symbolism of the Confederate flag versus the Confederate flag....the confederate flag is getting a mercy knee.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:07 pm to tigerfoot
I think the Confederate flag certainly has its place. I've visited many of the old battle fields and been drawn to tears on a few occasions as I considered the loss that took place. Those battle fields and museums should always have a place for the Confederate flag - in context.
I'm just not sure what good comes out of it being waved in public places and government buildings, or why there's such a fuss about removing them from those places.
I'm just not sure what good comes out of it being waved in public places and government buildings, or why there's such a fuss about removing them from those places.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:09 pm to stbpike24
quote:
Oh so it's only the one that YOU associate it with that should matter? Why doesnt all things used represent the same thing.
Ok, who else associates the American flag with slavery.........raise you hand.
How about the Christian cross?
White sheets?
You are so far off the rails, it really had to be typed out.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:11 pm to pankReb
quote:
No....people have a problem with the flag because it's an oppressive symbol.
there is a difference and your example proves that. You're trying to justify it that a black man owned a slave as if that makes it ok....while completely ignoring the most important part of your example.....a slave was owned.
quote:
pankReb
I can't quite put my finger on what is wrong here.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:12 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
a huge number of southerners also don't know very much about the flag itself or its history. It's just become a part of the culture, so they defend it.
So why cant they take the flag back from the Klan? The Confederates fought under it as symbol. Argue they were fighting for slavery if you want but to the majority of the soldiers that gave their life they were fighting for the principal that was much more than just slavery. They fought under a flag that they were proud of.
The Klan took something and made it evil. They used it as a symbol but also used many flags, banners and patches a symbols. they stained a piece of history and that cant be forgotten or ignored.
In todays culture the flag is flown by mostly rednecks. You see it on bumper stickers and tshirts. Sothern pride, heritage, redneck way of life, etc. This includes all races. Do they fly it as a reminder of the Klan? Do they fly it to intimidate minorities? Maybe a few do but to take them away from monuments where they represent a piece of history wont change whats in a persons thought process or take away evil thoughts from people that wish to do harm.
Why cant something negative ever be changed? Has the flag wile being used by the Klan so many years ago cut a scar so deep it cant come back from it? The outcry over the flag was almost non existent until some lost, psychopath murdered innocent people after posing with it in pictures. If the flag didn't exist it wouldn't have stopped this guy. Should we not take every other thing he posed with and remove it also?
The comparison of the Swastika and "Confederate" flag is apples an oranges. The level of hate, murder, and evil committed under a swastika stands mountains above what the Klan did under the "Confederate" flag. That's not even mentioning the state flags and American flags that the Klan also rallied under and flew proudly.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:15 pm to Tuscaloosa
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:16 pm to Tuscaloosa
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:17 pm to Tuscaloosa
The fuss is about the same rights yall are fighting for to remove it. The people who are not offended by the flag should have just as much say about it as well. We have become a pussified country that bows and caters to every wish and cry of people screaming they are offended. We have gone so far out of our way to satisfy those cries that the other half is wondering why the things they take offense to does not matter. The confederate flag may not mean much to you but for a lot of people in the south it is a symbol of our heritage. Not just a heritage of slavery but our ancestors who fought and died for the inalienable rights. Whether those rights be good or bad, they had their right to fight for them. And regardless of the outcome, they were men just like you and I and family members that died. We allow memorials and symbols all over for memory of past, ones we all agree with and some that both sides disagree with. I dont agree with the Michael Brown memorial in Ferguson but it is what it is and that is their right to have it. So why do I have to give up my right to keep mine? Or why does South Carolina not have the right to keep theirs? If we try to erase history or forget it, then it will surely come back around to bite us again.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:18 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:shite, I want to have a debate about offensive things.
or why there's such a fuss about removing them from those places.
I will give you the Confederate flag, and raise you dudes running around with their pants by their knees.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:21 pm to tigerfoot
I'm not far off the rails. You made my point perfectly clear for me. Thank you.
Those symbols don't associate with Slavery because we choose to not associate them with them. Would be to hard to admit that all those symbols play a part in racist actions and be able to justify keeping them around. But the truth of the matter is that they all do associate.
Those symbols don't associate with Slavery because we choose to not associate them with them. Would be to hard to admit that all those symbols play a part in racist actions and be able to justify keeping them around. But the truth of the matter is that they all do associate.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:29 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:That ship has sailed.
So why cant they take the flag back from the Klan?
quote:the answer appears to be a resounding YES
Why cant something negative ever be changed? Has the flag wile being used by the Klan so many years ago cut a scar so deep it cant come back from it?
quote:OK, but a little dogshit on your hand is still dogshit.
The level of hate, murder, and evil committed under a swastika stands mountains above what the Klan did under the "Confederate" flag
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