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Message
re: Wednesday Mark Ingram
Posted on 8/11/11 at 7:57 am to Brettesaurus Rex
Posted on 8/11/11 at 7:57 am to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Next years first round pick?
and this year's 2nd, right?
i'm not a fan of RBs in the 1st, let alone giving up a 1st and a 2nd. RB is just not a valuable position
you can usually get a quality back later in the draft or cheap in FA. ingram should be a hoss, but he's goin to have to put up some legit stats to show his worth compared to what we gave up
1
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
ingram should be a hoss, but he's goin to have to put up some legit stats to show his worth compared to what we gave up
what counts as legit stats?
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:01 am to jdrumdog
quote:
what counts as legit stats?
1100-1300 yards per year. 4.8-5.2 ypc
i keep it realistic
and not this year, b/c he's a rookie. but in a year or 2 he needs to be topping 1k yards on the reg
*ETA: to clarify. he CAN get 1k+ yards this year. but i'm just not going to expect it b/c he's a rookie.
This post was edited on 8/11/11 at 8:11 am
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i didn't hate ingram. i just think we gave up a TON for a position that isn't valuable
I know the league has changed a bit, but I remember a time when guys like Edgerin James and Ricky Williams were both top 5 picks. Ingram was arguably the best back in the draft and the first one taken. How is a late 1st and a late 2nd not good value for a guy that might have been a top 10 pick a decade ago?
quote:
jenkins failed at CB like i said he would. all i did was point out that he wasn't going to be a good CB, and saintards flipped out and tried to tell me 4.55 speed was fine at man CB
Really? I thought most of us thought he was drafted to eventually take over at safety.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:17 am to TigerinATL
quote:
ow is a late 1st and a late 2nd not good value for a guy that might have been a top 10 pick a decade ago?
Because of this:
quote:
I know the league has changed
Look, I love the Ingram pick. Have no issues with what they gave up for him. The only thing I would tell SFP is that he will help the team, as a whole. Not just by rushing for 1K yards. Think play action, keeping the D off the field late in the game...stuff like that. Its not just the rushing yards.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:17 am to TigerinATL
quote:
How is a late 1st and a late 2nd not good value for a guy that might have been a top 10 pick a decade ago?
those valuations were over a decade ago
tyson jackson would have never gone top 3 a decade ago, either. things change (and i don't agree with tyson being picked that high)
quote:
Really? I thought most of us thought he was drafted to eventually take over at safety.
it was more of a "i trust CSP...but if he's wrong, we can try him at FS"
i value the shite out of a FS who can cover well. jenkins needs to be that guy this year (with harper back and uncertainty at CB)
and as for prob, i didn't hate the pick, but i got worried b/c it was a signal that the saints probably weren't going to keep porter and greer for much longer. one is likely going to be out
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:19 am to SaintEB
quote:
The only thing I would tell SFP is that he will help the team, as a whole. Not just by rushing for 1K yards. Think play action, keeping the D off the field late in the game...stuff like that. Its not just the rushing yards.
i don't disagree, but there are a bunch of RBs who could theoretically help out in the same areas who would cost less
there are 2 concepts: the player and his value/cost
i really like the player. i hope he lives up to the cost of acquiring the player
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
jenkins failed at CB like i said he would.
I fail to see where he failed at CB.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:20 am to jdrumdog
quote:
I fail to see where he failed at CB.
Well, I don't agree that he failed, but I understand what SFP is saying. If he was really that good at CB, then he would be playing CB. You don't move your best corner to safety just because he can be good at it too.
ETA: This is the wrong thread for this.
This post was edited on 8/11/11 at 8:21 am
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
As a Die hard fan i find my self being pretty
analytical of every move made....Having said that, by and large I stay pretty upbeat and optimistic regarding the choices the FO makes. I trust they know much more than me.
You on the other hand, like to be a pessismist
while doing your analyzing....
You want them to be a bust so you can say
" i told you arse holes we gave up too much! "
Wouldnt you rather eat crow sometimes?
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:23 am to SaintEB
quote:
Well, I don't agree that he failed, but I understand what SFP is saying. If he was really that good at CB, then he would be playing CB. You don't move your best corner to safety just because he can be good at it too.
and you don't draft a replacement CB the very next year in the 1st with 2 starters and a 1st rounder used on a CB the year before
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there are 2 concepts: the player and his value/cost
i really like the player. i hope he lives up to the cost of acquiring the player
I think at this point most experts agree we stole Ingram. It was a great value pick, according to them. Besides, say we don't pick Ingram at all. You can't tell me someone didn't have ears on the other teams, seeing if another team was going to pick up Ingram if we passed.
There is a 3rd concept.....our head coach has a wish list of players that he'd like to have based on the team's evaluations.
combine those three and everyone determined that the player and his value/cost was worth it. So far, this FO has proven time and again to mostly get maximum value for the money invested.
So to say that there are a bunch of RBs who could help out in the same areas is pure malarkey, as there are no Heisman trophy winners who cost less in this past years draft.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and you don't draft a replacement CB the very next year in the 1st with 2 starters and a 1st rounder used on a CB the year before
I do think Jenkins was a good corner though. He had Wes Welker on lock in the Pats game and he was all over Austin Collie the following year. I think if you look at 2010, with the handcuffs of free agency rules (top 4 rules) they couldn't go after a FS, which they needed desperately (sharper was on his last leg), and there was no viable option at 32 in the draft. So, move Jenkins to safety and draft another corner, knowing that the depth is needed.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:27 am to jdrumdog
quote:
if another team was going to pick up Ingram if we passed.
If he had made it to 32, Green Bay would have snatched him and they (media) would be talking about a Packer repeat right now.
This post was edited on 8/11/11 at 8:28 am
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:27 am to thedice20
quote:
Wouldnt you rather eat crow sometimes?
i was very happy eating crow about tracy porter
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:28 am to SaintEB
quote:
If he was really that good at CB, then he would be playing CB. You don't move your best corner to safety just because he can be good at it too.
don't really know if anybody watches film, but he plays both now. I'd call that pretty versatile and makes the player decently valuable. Again, don't see where the pick or the job at CB failed.
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
those valuations were over a decade ago
Are teams really running that differently to the point that a bellcow back isn't needed anymore? Isn't the main reason RBBC rules the day because of the injury risk of the position and not wanting a lot of the cap tied up in an injury prone player? If Ingram stays healthy doesn't that justify the value given up?
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and you don't draft a replacement CB
who said he was a replacement?
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:30 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Are teams really running that differently to the point that a bellcow back isn't needed anymore?
it's more of just an abundance of good/great RBs
more supply = lower demand/cost
quote:
Isn't the main reason RBBC rules the day because of the injury risk of the position and not wanting a lot of the cap tied up in an injury prone player?
that is part of it, but since there is such a large supply of RB talent, it's not worth it to pay $7M when you can pay $2M and $3M for 2 guys who will out-produce the individual player (while giving you a safety net)
Posted on 8/11/11 at 8:30 am to TigerinATL
quote:
If Ingram stays healthy doesn't that justify the value given up?
Watch out. That makes too much sense for this thread.
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