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Message
Saints receivers production worst in Payton era.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:12 am
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:12 am
LINK
It's hardly a secret, but the Saints have got to get better at the wide receiver position in 2022 if they want to be competitors. Getting a stable option at quarterback will go a long way, but it's simply an area that had a ton of opportunity. That's putting it lightly actually, as the top receiver output ended up being the worst production in the Sean Payton Era.
The production tracking takes the top yardage leaders for the team by season, and then we get a collective output for receptions and touchdown catches. It's the second straight year we've seen a decline from the offense.
Top 3 Receiver Production Since 2006
2021: Marquez Callaway, Deonte Harris, Alvin Kamara (129 receptions, 1,707 yards, 14 TDs)
Callaway (46-698-6), Harris (36-570-3), Kamara (47-439-5)
2020: Alvin Kamara, Emmanuel Sanders, Jared Cook (181 receptions, 1,986 yards, 17 TDs)
Kamara (83-756-5), Sanders (61-726-5), Cook (37-504-7)
2019: Michael Thomas, Jared Cook, Alvin Kamara (273 receptions, 2,963 yards, 19 TDs)
Thomas (149-1725-9), Cook (43-705-9), Kamara (81-533-1)
2018: Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara, Tre'Quan Smith (234 receptions, 2,541 yards, 18 TDs)
Thomas (125-1405-9), Kamara (81-709-4), T. Smith (28-427-5)
2017: Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara, Ted Ginn Jr. (238 receptions, 2,858 yards, 14 TDs)
Thomas (104-1245-5), Kamara (81-826-5), Ginn (53-787-4)
2016: Brandin Cooks, Michael Thomas, Willie Snead (242 receptions, 3,205 yards, 21 TDs)
Cooks (78-1173-8), Thomas (92-1137-9), Snead (72-895-4)
2015: Brandin Cooks, Willie Snead, Ben Watson (227 receptions, 2,947 yards, 18 TDs)
Cooks (84-1138-9), Snead (69-984-3), Watson (74-825-6)
2014: Kenny Stills, Marques Colston, Jimmy Graham (207 receptions, 2,722 yards, 18 TDs)
Stills (63-931-3), Colston (59-902-5), Graham (85-889-10)
2013: Jimmy Graham, Marques Colston, Kenny Stills (193 receptions, 2,799 yards, 26 TDs)
Graham (86-1215-16), Colston (75-943-5), Stills (32-641-5)
2012: Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Jimmy Graham (233 receptions, 3,177 yards, 25 TDs)
Colston (83-1154-10), Moore (65-1041-6), Graham (85-982-9)
2011: Jimmy Graham, Marques Colston, Darren Sproles (265 receptions, 3,163 yards, 26 TDs)
Graham (99-1310-11), Colston (80-1143-8), Sproles (86-710-7)
2010: Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Robert Meachem (194 receptions, 2,444 yards, 20 TDs)
Colston (84-1023-7), Moore (66-783-8), Meachem (44-638-5)
2009: Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem (166 receptions, 2,600 yards, 20 TDs)
Colston (70-1074-9), Henderson (51-804-2), Meachem (45-722-9)
2008: Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Marques Colston (158 receptions, 2,481 yards, 18 TDs)
Moore (79-928-10), Henderson (32-793-3), Colston (47-760-5)
2007: Marques Colston, David Patten, Reggie Bush (225 receptions, 2,411 yards, 16 TDs)
Colston (98-1202-11), Patten (54-792-3), Bush (73-417-2)
2006: Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Reggie Bush (190 receptions, 2,525 yards, 15 TDs)
Colston (70-1038-8), Henderson (32-745-5), Bush (88-742-2)
The 2019 season was the bar for receptions (273), fueled largely in part by Michael Thomas' record-setting season, while 2016 was the best season for yardage (3,205). 2011 and 2013 saw the most touchdowns out of the Top 3 with 26 in each season.
The Current Landscape
Assuming nothing crazy happens in the offseason, Michael Thomas should be back with the team with a major chip on his shoulder. There was obviously a big miscommunication last offseason that prevented him from seeing the field in 2021, and things briefly soured between him and the team. However, those fences look to be mended, with him being around the Saints at times. Just his presence would have helped a very stagnant offense, and he certainly has a lot to prove.
Free Agent Decisions: New Orleans has to figure out whether or not to let Tre'Quan Smith test free agency, while hopefully making an easy decision on Deonte Harris (Harty) as a restricted free agent. Ty Montgomery and Kenny Stills are also unrestricted free agents, with Stills not likely a player that should be back. Lil'Jordan Humphrey would also be someone to watch as a potential exclusive rights free agent, but he should likely return.
Returning Faces: In addition to Thomas, the Saints will have Marquez Callaway back in the mix. Meanwhile, Kevin White, Easop Winston Jr., and Kawaan Baker all returned on reserve/future deals. No matter what ultimately happens, the team is going to have to look at adding over the next few months.
Upgrade Options
There's a premium of talent that is set to hit the open market when the new season rolls around. How New Orleans attacks this could depend largely on how they address the quarterback position. If they were to trade for someone like Russell Wilson and absorb a high cap hit, then they'd need to ensure they push some money to make way for acquiring at least one receiver.
It's not a given, but bringing back someone like Jameis Winston could allow them to be a bigger spender in free agency. Premiere options to upgrade the group include the likes of Davante Adams, Odell Beckham Jr., Chris Godwin, Mike Williams, and Allen Robinson.
The other tier options would be Christian Kirk, Jamison Crowder, Will Fuller, Russell Gage, Michael Gallup, Zay Jones, Byron Pringle, Kalif Raymond, and Cedrick Wilson Jr.. Veterans like Emmanuel Sanders and A.J. Green would likely be a yearly rental.
The draft also has some plentiful options, as New Orleans could be in a prime position if they hold firm with their 18th pick. Jameson Williams (Alabama), who is going to be coming back from an ACL tear, was a rising prospect. His draft stock is going to be something to watch. Garrett Wilson (Ohio State), Chris Olave (Ohio State), Jahan Dotson (Penn State), and Treylon Burks (Arkansas) are some of the top names to watch leading up to the draft, and we'll look at those in depth as we get closer.
The bottom line is that the Saints improvements are very clear this offseason, and the wide receiver group is an area that desperately needs attention. Regardless of feelings on the current situation, they have to get better here. When you look across other teams in the league, things that stick out are their top trios. New Orleans isn't in that conversation, even with a healthy Michael Thomas. They simply don't stack up, and for years we've said that they don't scare anyone.
Hopefully, this is the offseason that changes things, but also remember that New Orleans has not been big spenders in free agency on the position. Since 2010, they've shelled out a total of $37 million on the position in contracts, which represents 6.4 percent of their total spending. Just under half of that came from Emmanuel Sanders (2 years, $16 million).
As always, we'll see what happens, but hopefully a different product and outcome is on the field for 2022.
It's hardly a secret, but the Saints have got to get better at the wide receiver position in 2022 if they want to be competitors. Getting a stable option at quarterback will go a long way, but it's simply an area that had a ton of opportunity. That's putting it lightly actually, as the top receiver output ended up being the worst production in the Sean Payton Era.
The production tracking takes the top yardage leaders for the team by season, and then we get a collective output for receptions and touchdown catches. It's the second straight year we've seen a decline from the offense.
Top 3 Receiver Production Since 2006
2021: Marquez Callaway, Deonte Harris, Alvin Kamara (129 receptions, 1,707 yards, 14 TDs)
Callaway (46-698-6), Harris (36-570-3), Kamara (47-439-5)
2020: Alvin Kamara, Emmanuel Sanders, Jared Cook (181 receptions, 1,986 yards, 17 TDs)
Kamara (83-756-5), Sanders (61-726-5), Cook (37-504-7)
2019: Michael Thomas, Jared Cook, Alvin Kamara (273 receptions, 2,963 yards, 19 TDs)
Thomas (149-1725-9), Cook (43-705-9), Kamara (81-533-1)
2018: Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara, Tre'Quan Smith (234 receptions, 2,541 yards, 18 TDs)
Thomas (125-1405-9), Kamara (81-709-4), T. Smith (28-427-5)
2017: Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara, Ted Ginn Jr. (238 receptions, 2,858 yards, 14 TDs)
Thomas (104-1245-5), Kamara (81-826-5), Ginn (53-787-4)
2016: Brandin Cooks, Michael Thomas, Willie Snead (242 receptions, 3,205 yards, 21 TDs)
Cooks (78-1173-8), Thomas (92-1137-9), Snead (72-895-4)
2015: Brandin Cooks, Willie Snead, Ben Watson (227 receptions, 2,947 yards, 18 TDs)
Cooks (84-1138-9), Snead (69-984-3), Watson (74-825-6)
2014: Kenny Stills, Marques Colston, Jimmy Graham (207 receptions, 2,722 yards, 18 TDs)
Stills (63-931-3), Colston (59-902-5), Graham (85-889-10)
2013: Jimmy Graham, Marques Colston, Kenny Stills (193 receptions, 2,799 yards, 26 TDs)
Graham (86-1215-16), Colston (75-943-5), Stills (32-641-5)
2012: Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Jimmy Graham (233 receptions, 3,177 yards, 25 TDs)
Colston (83-1154-10), Moore (65-1041-6), Graham (85-982-9)
2011: Jimmy Graham, Marques Colston, Darren Sproles (265 receptions, 3,163 yards, 26 TDs)
Graham (99-1310-11), Colston (80-1143-8), Sproles (86-710-7)
2010: Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Robert Meachem (194 receptions, 2,444 yards, 20 TDs)
Colston (84-1023-7), Moore (66-783-8), Meachem (44-638-5)
2009: Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem (166 receptions, 2,600 yards, 20 TDs)
Colston (70-1074-9), Henderson (51-804-2), Meachem (45-722-9)
2008: Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Marques Colston (158 receptions, 2,481 yards, 18 TDs)
Moore (79-928-10), Henderson (32-793-3), Colston (47-760-5)
2007: Marques Colston, David Patten, Reggie Bush (225 receptions, 2,411 yards, 16 TDs)
Colston (98-1202-11), Patten (54-792-3), Bush (73-417-2)
2006: Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Reggie Bush (190 receptions, 2,525 yards, 15 TDs)
Colston (70-1038-8), Henderson (32-745-5), Bush (88-742-2)
The 2019 season was the bar for receptions (273), fueled largely in part by Michael Thomas' record-setting season, while 2016 was the best season for yardage (3,205). 2011 and 2013 saw the most touchdowns out of the Top 3 with 26 in each season.
The Current Landscape
Assuming nothing crazy happens in the offseason, Michael Thomas should be back with the team with a major chip on his shoulder. There was obviously a big miscommunication last offseason that prevented him from seeing the field in 2021, and things briefly soured between him and the team. However, those fences look to be mended, with him being around the Saints at times. Just his presence would have helped a very stagnant offense, and he certainly has a lot to prove.
Free Agent Decisions: New Orleans has to figure out whether or not to let Tre'Quan Smith test free agency, while hopefully making an easy decision on Deonte Harris (Harty) as a restricted free agent. Ty Montgomery and Kenny Stills are also unrestricted free agents, with Stills not likely a player that should be back. Lil'Jordan Humphrey would also be someone to watch as a potential exclusive rights free agent, but he should likely return.
Returning Faces: In addition to Thomas, the Saints will have Marquez Callaway back in the mix. Meanwhile, Kevin White, Easop Winston Jr., and Kawaan Baker all returned on reserve/future deals. No matter what ultimately happens, the team is going to have to look at adding over the next few months.
Upgrade Options
There's a premium of talent that is set to hit the open market when the new season rolls around. How New Orleans attacks this could depend largely on how they address the quarterback position. If they were to trade for someone like Russell Wilson and absorb a high cap hit, then they'd need to ensure they push some money to make way for acquiring at least one receiver.
It's not a given, but bringing back someone like Jameis Winston could allow them to be a bigger spender in free agency. Premiere options to upgrade the group include the likes of Davante Adams, Odell Beckham Jr., Chris Godwin, Mike Williams, and Allen Robinson.
The other tier options would be Christian Kirk, Jamison Crowder, Will Fuller, Russell Gage, Michael Gallup, Zay Jones, Byron Pringle, Kalif Raymond, and Cedrick Wilson Jr.. Veterans like Emmanuel Sanders and A.J. Green would likely be a yearly rental.
The draft also has some plentiful options, as New Orleans could be in a prime position if they hold firm with their 18th pick. Jameson Williams (Alabama), who is going to be coming back from an ACL tear, was a rising prospect. His draft stock is going to be something to watch. Garrett Wilson (Ohio State), Chris Olave (Ohio State), Jahan Dotson (Penn State), and Treylon Burks (Arkansas) are some of the top names to watch leading up to the draft, and we'll look at those in depth as we get closer.
The bottom line is that the Saints improvements are very clear this offseason, and the wide receiver group is an area that desperately needs attention. Regardless of feelings on the current situation, they have to get better here. When you look across other teams in the league, things that stick out are their top trios. New Orleans isn't in that conversation, even with a healthy Michael Thomas. They simply don't stack up, and for years we've said that they don't scare anyone.
Hopefully, this is the offseason that changes things, but also remember that New Orleans has not been big spenders in free agency on the position. Since 2010, they've shelled out a total of $37 million on the position in contracts, which represents 6.4 percent of their total spending. Just under half of that came from Emmanuel Sanders (2 years, $16 million).
As always, we'll see what happens, but hopefully a different product and outcome is on the field for 2022.
7
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:25 am to hellsu
Yes. We will get better players at WR.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:46 am to goatmilker
quote:
Yes, we will get better players at WR
It seems this would be the year to go the free agency route for a WR.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:52 am to hellsu
They don't really open up the playbook for Payton Hill. He looked great before he injured his ankle. He'll be back and can make the throws needed if they trust him.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:52 am to hellsu
Draft seems like the best way to go about getting a #2.
Mike Thomas is making a shite load, Deonte Harris is a RFA that we'll probably have to tender, Callaway will need to be paid in 2023, & Tre'Quan is an UFA. Tre'Quan should be cheap, but still
It would be hard to add another big WR salary to this situation.
Mike Thomas is making a shite load, Deonte Harris is a RFA that we'll probably have to tender, Callaway will need to be paid in 2023, & Tre'Quan is an UFA. Tre'Quan should be cheap, but still
It would be hard to add another big WR salary to this situation.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:29 am to GMoney2600
quote:
Draft seems like the best wat to go about getting a #2
I wouldn't have an issue with that, it is easier to plug and play a rookie at WR particularly as your #2 but my approach would be to keep Winston unless we secured Wilson grab a WR in free agency and draft the best o-tackle available.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:45 am to hellsu
Great post!
The WR group becomes better the second Thomas returns. I also believe that the draft will provide several opportunities to upgrade #2, #3, or inject much-needed depth at a minimum.
The WR group becomes better the second Thomas returns. I also believe that the draft will provide several opportunities to upgrade #2, #3, or inject much-needed depth at a minimum.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 12:08 pm to dchunk
[quote]The WR group becomes better the second Thomas returns[/quote ]You have to figure that no matter who lines up as the starting Q.B. next season the passing game would drastically improve with the return of Thomas and the addition of a legit #2 WR. Also here is an article from late November concerning the M.T. situation. I think Thomas is just itching to come back and play.
LINK
New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says receiver Michael Thomas suffered setback, may need another procedure on ankle
New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says receiver Michael Thomas suffered setback, may need another procedure on ankle
"I think it's accurate to say there was a setback," Payton said. "And it wasn't anything of his – he's working his tail off – and the setback had more to do with the procedure he had initially that was done. As they went through the scans, there's a chance that he may have to have another procedure done.
"I think that Michael is working his tail off to get healthy and become available, and I think that this isn't anything that he can control. It has more to do with the tightrope procedure, and what that is, is a procedure that strengthens the ankle after you've had a significant injury to that area. So the setback is really surgically related, and we'll kind of go from there."
Thomas played in seven regular-season games, and both playoff games, last season after injuring his ankle in the regular-season opener against Tampa Bay. He was inactive six games and on injured reserve for the final three regular-season games – he caught 40 passes for 438 yards in the regular season – before rejoining the active roster for the playoffs.
He had surgery to repair the injury in June, and has been on the Physically Unable to Perform list all season.
"I've always been a man of faith and these past few months my faith has been truly tested," Thomas wrote on the social media post. "As many of you know, early last season I injured my ankle and I worked extremely hard over the next few months to get back in time to finish the season. Unfortunately the rehab didn't go as planned and earlier this off-season it was apparent I would need to have a procedure to repair the injury.
"Since then, the team and I have worked diligently, day and night to rehab and get me back on the field. Unfortunately, there has been another small setback which we will have to address. To my displeasure, I will not be able to make it back in time for this season but will do everything in my power to get back to the player I have always been."
In 2019, Thomas set an NFL single-season record with 149 catches, and was named NFL Offensive Player of the Year.
New Orleans didn't make a move to bolster the position at the trade deadline on Tuesday, and Payton said there was no fervent dash to do so.
Remember this was an article from November but I still think it sheds some light on the subject.
LINK
New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says receiver Michael Thomas suffered setback, may need another procedure on ankle
New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says receiver Michael Thomas suffered setback, may need another procedure on ankle
"I think it's accurate to say there was a setback," Payton said. "And it wasn't anything of his – he's working his tail off – and the setback had more to do with the procedure he had initially that was done. As they went through the scans, there's a chance that he may have to have another procedure done.
"I think that Michael is working his tail off to get healthy and become available, and I think that this isn't anything that he can control. It has more to do with the tightrope procedure, and what that is, is a procedure that strengthens the ankle after you've had a significant injury to that area. So the setback is really surgically related, and we'll kind of go from there."
Thomas played in seven regular-season games, and both playoff games, last season after injuring his ankle in the regular-season opener against Tampa Bay. He was inactive six games and on injured reserve for the final three regular-season games – he caught 40 passes for 438 yards in the regular season – before rejoining the active roster for the playoffs.
He had surgery to repair the injury in June, and has been on the Physically Unable to Perform list all season.
"I've always been a man of faith and these past few months my faith has been truly tested," Thomas wrote on the social media post. "As many of you know, early last season I injured my ankle and I worked extremely hard over the next few months to get back in time to finish the season. Unfortunately the rehab didn't go as planned and earlier this off-season it was apparent I would need to have a procedure to repair the injury.
"Since then, the team and I have worked diligently, day and night to rehab and get me back on the field. Unfortunately, there has been another small setback which we will have to address. To my displeasure, I will not be able to make it back in time for this season but will do everything in my power to get back to the player I have always been."
In 2019, Thomas set an NFL single-season record with 149 catches, and was named NFL Offensive Player of the Year.
New Orleans didn't make a move to bolster the position at the trade deadline on Tuesday, and Payton said there was no fervent dash to do so.
Remember this was an article from November but I still think it sheds some light on the subject.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 12:20 pm to hellsu
Firstly great post sir very good infomation
Second
I mean a guy in another post said it was obvious he doesn't want to play here and if we couldn't see that we were blind or stupid or something. So going by what that guy said you could be wrong here. He sounded pretty sure of himself too.
I really think if we let Trequan walk we go WR one of the first three rounds in the draft. Not sure about first rounders as Payton has done that twice. Once he got a solid #2/3 receiver for a few years (meachem) and the other was a locker room nightmare who is talented AF but can't stick to a team very long (cooks) I would look for what's projected middle of round two. Most of our success at WR under payton has been middle to late rounds. First round I feel like is O-line all the way because i feel like we are letting Armstead walk and Ruiz has absolutely been a bust through two years.
As far as free agents Devante Adams is a pipe dream and won't happen and OBJ already turned us down once. I would love to grab Mike Williams if he isn't commanding huge money, but if we pick one up it will be the second or third tier probably
Second
quote:
There was obviously a big miscommunication last offseason that prevented him from seeing the field in 2021, and things briefly soured between him and the team. However, those fences look to be mended
I mean a guy in another post said it was obvious he doesn't want to play here and if we couldn't see that we were blind or stupid or something. So going by what that guy said you could be wrong here. He sounded pretty sure of himself too.
I really think if we let Trequan walk we go WR one of the first three rounds in the draft. Not sure about first rounders as Payton has done that twice. Once he got a solid #2/3 receiver for a few years (meachem) and the other was a locker room nightmare who is talented AF but can't stick to a team very long (cooks) I would look for what's projected middle of round two. Most of our success at WR under payton has been middle to late rounds. First round I feel like is O-line all the way because i feel like we are letting Armstead walk and Ruiz has absolutely been a bust through two years.
As far as free agents Devante Adams is a pipe dream and won't happen and OBJ already turned us down once. I would love to grab Mike Williams if he isn't commanding huge money, but if we pick one up it will be the second or third tier probably
Posted on 1/19/22 at 12:38 pm to hellsu
Saints WRs have been a problem for 5 years now. Outside Thomas there is no real threat. I don't know how Payton didn't address this with an aging QB. And especially this season since our QBs ain't that good and need guys to make the play when the throw is there.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 1:03 pm to hellsu
I hate taking WRs in the first round. You’re just as likely to get a Jalen Reagor as you are a Justin Jefferson. (Reagor was taken a pick before Jefferson.)
That said, I’d be okay taking a WR with our first pick this year. We aren’t getting Adams or OBJ or Robinson. I think Harris/Harty and Calloway are really good WRs. They just aren’t #1 WRs. At least not now.
I think you need to look at TEs in this as well too. In half of our seasons, a TE was a top or top 3 receiver on the team. I think Trautman is talented and capable, he’s just not that guy yet. I’d rather us spend our FA capital on bringing in a FA TE, because there are some good ones this year that won’t break the bank, and draft a WR or two.
That said, I’d be okay taking a WR with our first pick this year. We aren’t getting Adams or OBJ or Robinson. I think Harris/Harty and Calloway are really good WRs. They just aren’t #1 WRs. At least not now.
I think you need to look at TEs in this as well too. In half of our seasons, a TE was a top or top 3 receiver on the team. I think Trautman is talented and capable, he’s just not that guy yet. I’d rather us spend our FA capital on bringing in a FA TE, because there are some good ones this year that won’t break the bank, and draft a WR or two.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 1:07 pm to hellsu
I like the arkansas reciever...but I trust Ireland
speaking of which, any news on his interviews??
speaking of which, any news on his interviews??
Posted on 1/19/22 at 1:38 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
I mean a guy in another post said it was obvious he doesn't want to play here and if we coulldn't see that we were blind or stupid or something. So going by what that guy said you could be wrong here. He sounded pretty sure of homself too.
I could be wrong but going by statements made by Thomas and Payton in the article I posted in the link in my second post. And it has been mentioned in the media of several positive interactions he has had with his teammates and with his overall attitude. These random posters have not put out any evidence to the contrary but rumors. I would put my money on Thomas coming back healthy and ready to play and I think the team is of the same mind.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 1:38 pm to mindbreaker
delete
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 1/19/22 at 2:38 pm to hellsu
quote:
worst in Payton era.
Outside of Callaway we had zero WR worth a damn
No TE threat.
1st yr without brees and Winston injured early
Even if the year went perfect this was always going to be the worst passing year simply due to personnel on team. We bolstered the defense at the detriment of offense. Outside of Kamara and Ramczyck we don't have steady offensive players that can win in the NFL.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 2:43 pm to MountainDewGF
Who the hell is Payton Hill?
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