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re: NFL.com's Chad Reuter Mock Draft
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:24 pm to rmnldr
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:24 pm to rmnldr
Power can be evaluated as Force*Velocity mate.
Barnett's jump off the line and his first punch creates the power for his bullrush.
You don't have a good bullrush with just raw strength.
You catch the defender off balance with a quick burst off the line, sink your hips explode, and press their arse back. DF are you talking about ??.... I'm done
Barnett's jump off the line and his first punch creates the power for his bullrush.
You don't have a good bullrush with just raw strength.
You catch the defender off balance with a quick burst off the line, sink your hips explode, and press their arse back. DF are you talking about ??.... I'm done
1
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:25 pm to NamariTiger
quote:
Power can be evaluated as Force*Velocity mate.
Barnett's jump off the line and his first punch creates the power for his bullrush.
You don't have a good bullrush with just raw strength.
You catch the defender off balance with a quick burst off the line, sink your hips explode, and press their arse back. DF are you talking about ??.... I'm done
You just explained what I've been saying. There's a difference between having pure strength and being a good "bullrusher".
Taco HAS raw strength that Barnett doesn't.
My original statement was that Barnett doesn't have anything more than a speed rush.
The guy responded by saying that his bull rush is better than anyone else's.
I responded by saying that bull rush is speed rush and got laughed at.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:27 pm to rmnldr
quote:
When you see Arden Key bull rush do you think it's because he's naturally strong? He's very very quick and translates that into power.
Arden Key has extremely long arms he uses for leverage but Key relies on more speed than power to rush the QB. Similar style players were Javon Kearse & Aldon Smith but the GOAT was Deacon Jones. NOBODY in NFL history had better hands than Jones & that's even after the NFL banned his head slap move because Jones had long arms. He could win with leverage & quick hands.
quote:
Ever wonder how he holds up on the edge when he's so small? It's because his hand placement is often impeccable.
Nope, it's because he wins with leverage from his long arms. He can keep offensive linemen from getting into his body & pushing him around.
quote:
Barnett isn't stronger than Taco. He's average at best. His hand placement is severely lacking. I don't know where the frick you & all of these scouts come up with this shite.
He has 1 consistent move in pass rush and that's a swipe move.
quote:
If that's your idea of good "hand usage" then you're a fricking idiot
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:29 pm to rmnldr
A bullrush is a bullrush bro. Speed rush is quick and beating someone to the outside. Barnett does both. How can you not understand what I'm saying.
You need speed and power to pull off a bullrush. If you're slow off the line the O line man can set his base and fight it off.
You need speed and power to pull off a bullrush. If you're slow off the line the O line man can set his base and fight it off.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:30 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Arden Key has extremely long arms he uses for leverage
Yes and his hand placement is what helps him take advantage of that. If he didn't have his hands in the right place he'd be overpowered every single play.
quote:
Key relies on more speed than power to rush the QB
Precisely
quote:
Nope, it's because he wins with leverage from his long arms.
You can have the longest arms in the world and not be able to hold the edge if you don't use your hands right. If Key has his hands outside or is busy hand fighting he's getting his arse turned into grass.
quote:
He can keep offensive linemen from getting into his body & pushing him around.
Exactly. And how does he do that? Hand placement.
quote:
A bullrush is a bullrush bro. Speed rush is quick and beating someone to the outside. Barnett does both. How can you not understand what I'm saying.
You need speed and power to pull off a bullrush. If you're slow off the line the O line man can set his base and fight it off.
We're saying the exact same thing. All I'm saying is that that is all Barnett has. He's not going to overpower an OL if he's not already prepared to speed rush (3rd down). He's also not going to push them into the backfield on runs.
If the OL has a quick enough kick step, Barnett is toast.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 8:33 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:31 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Barnett is much more one dimensional
Learn what sarcasm is buddy. Also, read the entire conversation before you jump in.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:02 pm to BigBrod81
Barnett
Charlton
It's crazy almost everything rmnldr said about both players is the complete opposite of what this says.
And if you note in strengths for Taco they mention almost 100% exclusive pass rushing traits, with one mention at the end that his size COULD lead to being good against the run and another that he has the speed to chase outside.
Key word to him was INCONSISTENT. Will that change at this level? Maybe. I think he has the character that could lead to him developing. But he NEEDS to develop. Barnett is already nfl ready.
Edit:
And yes I've seen them play and almost all of this is very on point.
Also wanted to drop this in here:
Barnett can definitely play the run and play it very well. He may have to put on 5-10 lbs. for the nfl but that isn't asking too much.
Charlton
It's crazy almost everything rmnldr said about both players is the complete opposite of what this says.
And if you note in strengths for Taco they mention almost 100% exclusive pass rushing traits, with one mention at the end that his size COULD lead to being good against the run and another that he has the speed to chase outside.
Key word to him was INCONSISTENT. Will that change at this level? Maybe. I think he has the character that could lead to him developing. But he NEEDS to develop. Barnett is already nfl ready.
Edit:
And yes I've seen them play and almost all of this is very on point.
Also wanted to drop this in here:
quote:
Elite production on par with former Vol and Hall of Famer Reggie White against run and as sack artist.
Barnett can definitely play the run and play it very well. He may have to put on 5-10 lbs. for the nfl but that isn't asking too much.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:14 pm to bonethug0108
sigh
I read these all the time before I watch tape.
I usually agree with what they say. The only problem with Barnett's positive section is that when they mention his hands they don't say if it's for pass rushing or in run defense. His hands are average in run defense but pretty good in pass rushing. His swipe move is his best move and the one he usually exclusively uses (reminds me of Malik McDowell but without the brutality). He only rarely combines it with a swim, rip, etc.
When holding up to the run, he often tries the same and will try to swipe a defenders hands away and pursue instead of taking the block on and defeating the OL with extension and strength.
In Taco's report, I don't necessarily agree with this in his positive section: "Able to sink and swerve around corner if he gets early lead in race to the edge."
I don't think Taco is the type of guy to dip and round the corner with speed. Saying he's ABLE to do it is just that. It is extremely rare to ever see him do this on tape.
His negatives section is where the bullshite starts to fly. All of the stuff regarding his ability to hold up in the run game is just complete trash. Everything I've seen indicates that he's damn good at defending the run and it was his main strength before developing pass rush moves.
I just don't see this. I think Taco is a more natural run defender. I think the opposite for Barnett. He's a much more natural pass rusher.
Barnett is going to struggle mightily against tackles that run block and tackles with a quick kick step. That's all I'll say.
I read these all the time before I watch tape.
I usually agree with what they say. The only problem with Barnett's positive section is that when they mention his hands they don't say if it's for pass rushing or in run defense. His hands are average in run defense but pretty good in pass rushing. His swipe move is his best move and the one he usually exclusively uses (reminds me of Malik McDowell but without the brutality). He only rarely combines it with a swim, rip, etc.
When holding up to the run, he often tries the same and will try to swipe a defenders hands away and pursue instead of taking the block on and defeating the OL with extension and strength.
In Taco's report, I don't necessarily agree with this in his positive section: "Able to sink and swerve around corner if he gets early lead in race to the edge."
I don't think Taco is the type of guy to dip and round the corner with speed. Saying he's ABLE to do it is just that. It is extremely rare to ever see him do this on tape.
His negatives section is where the bullshite starts to fly. All of the stuff regarding his ability to hold up in the run game is just complete trash. Everything I've seen indicates that he's damn good at defending the run and it was his main strength before developing pass rush moves.
quote:
And if you note in strengths for Taco they mention almost 100% exclusive pass rushing traits, with one mention at the end that his size COULD lead to being good against the run and another that he has the speed to chase outside.
I just don't see this. I think Taco is a more natural run defender. I think the opposite for Barnett. He's a much more natural pass rusher.
quote:
Barnett is already nfl ready.
Barnett is going to struggle mightily against tackles that run block and tackles with a quick kick step. That's all I'll say.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:22 pm to rmnldr
I'll just say this again. Level of competition matters greatly.
Taco was not facing many guys going to the nfl. Barnett was facing nfl guys almost every week.
And Barnett still did much better in the run on tape. I really don't know what the frick you are looking at. It's baffling.
Taco was not facing many guys going to the nfl. Barnett was facing nfl guys almost every week.
And Barnett still did much better in the run on tape. I really don't know what the frick you are looking at. It's baffling.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:30 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
I'll just say this again. Level of competition matters greatly.
quote:
Taco was not facing many guys going to the nfl. Barnett was facing nfl guys almost every week.
So Ohio State, Florida State, Wisconsin, etc has no talent? Florida, Vanderbilt, Alabama, etc all have better tackles?
quote:
And Barnett still did much better in the run on tape.
Derek Barnett vs Georgia 2016
quote:
I really don't know what the frick you are looking at. It's baffling.
I just don't know. Maybe we see different things on the same exact play.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:48 pm to rmnldr
quote:
Tennessee did not hold a lead at Georgia for the first 57 minutes of the game, but that all changed for the Vols when All-SEC DE Derek Barnett made a play late in the fourth quarter.
Trailing 24-21, Barnett made what could turn into the play of the game when he broke free and put a hit on Georgia freshman QB Jacob Eason. Eason fumbled the ball, and Tennessee’s Corey Vereen fell on the ball in the end zone for a touchdown. The Vols took a 28-24 lead with under three minutes to go.
LINK
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:51 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
It's crazy almost everything rmnldr said about both players is the complete opposite of what this says.
And if you note in strengths for Taco they mention almost 100% exclusive pass rushing traits, with one mention at the end that his size COULD lead to being good against the run and another that he has the speed to chase outside.
Key word to him was INCONSISTENT. Will that change at this level? Maybe. I think he has the character that could lead to him developing. But he NEEDS to develop. Barnett is already nfl ready.
Edit:
And yes I've seen them play and almost all of this is very on point.
Also wanted to drop this in here:
quote:
Elite production on par with former Vol and Hall of Famer Reggie White against run and as sack artist.
Barnett can definitely play the run and play it very well. He may have to put on 5-10 lbs. for the nfl but that isn't asking too much.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:55 pm to BigBrod81
I also LOVE when people try to put up the best tape of the guy they want and the worst tape of the guy they are trying to put down.
And I know some people here are stat adverse but:
Barnett
Charlton
Even if you throw out Charlton's freshman year (which would make his stats per game much worse), Barnett just proved over and over on the field year after year that he was a play maker in the run and pass game and was far better on a per game basis in stats and watching the tape in actual play. AND he was much more consistent.
He has 20 tfl in the run game (52 total but 32 of those were sacks). He's batted passes. He's forced fumbles. He even has a pick to his name. His tackles per game are flat out better.
And he did this against better competition.
And I know some people here are stat adverse but:
Barnett
Charlton
Even if you throw out Charlton's freshman year (which would make his stats per game much worse), Barnett just proved over and over on the field year after year that he was a play maker in the run and pass game and was far better on a per game basis in stats and watching the tape in actual play. AND he was much more consistent.
He has 20 tfl in the run game (52 total but 32 of those were sacks). He's batted passes. He's forced fumbles. He even has a pick to his name. His tackles per game are flat out better.
And he did this against better competition.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:56 pm to rmnldr
quote:
sigh
I read these all the time before I watch tape.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:00 pm to Fun Bunch
What's so funny? 
ETA:
FWIW I think I know why we all disagree so vehemently. Y'all are looking at Taco for what he is now as a prospect. I'm viewing Taco as a project. I'm looking at what he can do now and projecting the development of his traits into his rookie season.
I don't even necessarily like Taco but I know the Saints like him so I'm assuming it's going to come down to Taco vs Barnett. I just think Barnett is who he is and there's not much more growth for him.
ETA2: Funnily enough, a Saintsreport thread popped up today on the topic of Barnett vs Taco
LINK
ETA:
FWIW I think I know why we all disagree so vehemently. Y'all are looking at Taco for what he is now as a prospect. I'm viewing Taco as a project. I'm looking at what he can do now and projecting the development of his traits into his rookie season.
I don't even necessarily like Taco but I know the Saints like him so I'm assuming it's going to come down to Taco vs Barnett. I just think Barnett is who he is and there's not much more growth for him.
ETA2: Funnily enough, a Saintsreport thread popped up today on the topic of Barnett vs Taco
LINK
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 10:11 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:10 pm to rmnldr
The fact that you said you've "watched tape". No you haven't.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:11 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The fact that you said you've "watched tape". No you haven't.
How have I not? Is watching him play every down of a game not "watching tape"?
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:14 pm to rmnldr
Of one game? No. No it's not.
You haven't watched tape unless you've AT LEAST watched 6 games of their play.
You cannot get a feel off of 1-3 games. It leads you far astray every time (unless you are intentionally picking games that weren't too high or two low for them).
And watching a guy's worst game or best game is going to greatly skew your opinion.
Edit:
Full season was a bit much. 1-3 games is a casual viewing, especially if you are cherry picking their best or worst games.
You haven't watched tape unless you've AT LEAST watched 6 games of their play.
You cannot get a feel off of 1-3 games. It leads you far astray every time (unless you are intentionally picking games that weren't too high or two low for them).
And watching a guy's worst game or best game is going to greatly skew your opinion.
Edit:
Full season was a bit much. 1-3 games is a casual viewing, especially if you are cherry picking their best or worst games.
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:20 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Of one game? No. No it's not.
You haven't watched tape unless you've AT LEAST watched 6 games of their play.
You cannot get a feel off of 1-3 games. It leads you far astray every time (unless you are intentionally picking games that weren't too high or two low for them).
And watching a guy's worst game or best game is going to greatly skew your opinion.
I never said that I only watched a few games. I've actually already watched 5+ games of Barnett and all of Taco's games. I don't know where you guys are coming up with this.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 10:23 pm to rmnldr
Sure you have sweetie.
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