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re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by JimMorrison on 1/28/13 at 4:19 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
But I thought some of the scenes with Pitt were incredible. The beach landing battle scene was awesome.
yeah it was. also, the opening scene when he ends the battle by killing the big dude was fricking epic.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by beaverfever on 1/28/13 at 4:22 pm to JimMorrison
quote:My opinion of the movie wouldn't be near as good without this scene. It was frickin sweet.
yeah it was. also, the opening scene when he ends the battle by killing the big dude was fricking epic.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by Ender1314 on 1/28/13 at 5:52 pm to Da #1 Stunna
quote:
The difference between the 2 movies can be summed up in 1 scene of Troy. The scene where they are having a big battle and Achilles is on strike to make a point to the king. So the big epic war scene is raging on with carnage everywhere and suddenly Achilles' cousin shows up dressed as Achilles. At that point the entire epic war scene stops on a dime and Bana and the cousin dressed as Achilles go one on one. Completely unrealistic and made a great scene a total farce.
Maybe you should read a few history books.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by WhoDats10 on 1/28/13 at 6:13 pm to tigerfan88
I thought troy was pretty good
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by RollTide1987 on 1/28/13 at 6:21 pm to Ender1314
The only problem I had with that scene was Hector's tactical error in stopping to take off the mask when he supposedly had slain Achilles.
His men had just reached an emotional high as their greatest warrior had just slain the greatest warrior of the Greeks. Had he pressed the battle from there, the Trojans would have won a total victory by driving the Greeks into the sea.
Not only does he stop to reveal that Achilles wasn't really Achilles but he also stops the battle and orders his men to bug out, thus signing his own death warrant as well as the death warrant of his beloved city.
He also could have continued the assault even after unmasking Patriclus. The Greeks were at a psychological and tactical disadvantage either way. Whatever way you want to slice it, the Trojans win that battle and with it the war 100% of the time. But NO! Hector calls a halt to the fighting and orders his men to return to Troy.
What an a-hole.
His men had just reached an emotional high as their greatest warrior had just slain the greatest warrior of the Greeks. Had he pressed the battle from there, the Trojans would have won a total victory by driving the Greeks into the sea.
Not only does he stop to reveal that Achilles wasn't really Achilles but he also stops the battle and orders his men to bug out, thus signing his own death warrant as well as the death warrant of his beloved city.
He also could have continued the assault even after unmasking Patriclus. The Greeks were at a psychological and tactical disadvantage either way. Whatever way you want to slice it, the Trojans win that battle and with it the war 100% of the time. But NO! Hector calls a halt to the fighting and orders his men to return to Troy.
What an a-hole.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 6:23 pm
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by Zamoro10 on 1/28/13 at 6:26 pm to RollTide1987
...because Gladiator could be shaped/written like any story for this generation while Troy had to follow Homer (somewhat) and use language that bothers kids who can't spell beyond texting.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by RollTide1987 on 1/28/13 at 6:29 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
...because Gladiator could be shaped/written like any story for this generation while Troy had to follow Homer (somewhat) and use language that bothers kids who can't spell beyond texting.
That still doesn't explain Hector's decision to withdraw his forces when they were on the brink of total victory. All for what? He killed a boy. Was the life of one Greek boy greater than the lives of his fellow Trojans?!!
Hector was a pussy who didn't have the courage to do all that was necessary to defend his homeland. He got what he deserved.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by LoveThatMoney on 1/28/13 at 6:41 pm to Da #1 Stunna
quote:
The guy they chose to be the King of Troy was TERRIBLE.
You mean Peter O'Toole? One of the best actors of all time? He wasn't very good in this role, but you should at least know his name. The man is a fricking legend.
quote:
So the big epic war scene is raging on with carnage everywhere and suddenly Achilles' cousin shows up dressed as Achilles. At that point the entire epic war scene stops on a dime and Bana and the cousin dressed as Achilles go one on one. Completely unrealistic and made a great scene a total farce.
The thing is, this was war in ancient Greece. Personal glory was all that mattered. The idea of a phalanx was generations away. In the Iliad, it made sense that the two most renowned warriors of the age would square off against each other to settle who was the better. It may be unrealistic to the modern state of war and the modern mind, but that was the way battles were fought in Homer's works.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 6:43 pm
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by 1fairbank on 1/28/13 at 6:42 pm to RollTide1987
You want to know the real reason why Troy didn't work? Because Troy is the prequel to The Odyssey, and since they didn't set up for a sequel, Hollywood shunned it.
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re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by WicKed WayZ on 1/28/13 at 6:43 pm to Rittdog
Troy is a guilty pleasure of mine
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by beaverfever on 1/28/13 at 6:52 pm to WicKed WayZ
I always kind of thought of it as my guilty pleasure movie too. Good to know I'm not the only one who liked it.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by Wild Thang on 1/28/13 at 7:05 pm to SpqrTiger
quote:
Read the Iliad when you are 18 and you will discover the wonder of Achilles. Read the Iliad when you are 35 and you will know the tragedy of Hector. Women shouldn't be weeping when Achilles dies at the end, like the movie attempts to do. Everyone should be disappointed that Hector, as excellent as he is... loving father and husband, loyal brother, devoted son, humble before the gods, excellent in battle, revered among his people... is slaughtered by an unfeeling, immature butcher of men. And here's the kicker - Hector, as awesome a fighter as he is... knows he stands no chance. He does his duty anyway.
S-U-C-K-S.
Great post.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by RollTide1987 on 1/28/13 at 7:08 pm to Wild Thang
I didn't feel for Achilles at all in Troy. I was more of a Hector fan because the guy actually fought for something more than just himself. Before he goes off to fight Achilles outside the city gates it's obvious he knows he isn't going to come back alive...but he goes anyway. That's pretty bad arse.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 7:11 pm
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by WicKed WayZ on 1/28/13 at 7:10 pm to Wild Thang
I was pulling for Hector when he fought Achilles even though I knew he was going to die.
Paris though? Killed Achilles with a bow. And couldn't beat a tub of lard piece of shite. Paris is a pussy he should have died.
Paris though? Killed Achilles with a bow. And couldn't beat a tub of lard piece of shite. Paris is a pussy he should have died.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by RollTide1987 on 1/28/13 at 7:11 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Paris is a pussy he should have died.
He does in the actual story. I guess Hollywood thought an ending where every male lead dies would have been too depressing for the masses.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by WicKed WayZ on 1/28/13 at 7:14 pm to RollTide1987
Even though I like Sean Bean as an actor I thought he was miscast as Odysessus (sp)?
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by RollTide1987 on 1/28/13 at 7:18 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Even though I like Sean Bean as an actor I thought he was miscast as Odysessus (sp)?
That's only because you're used to seeing his character die in every film of his you watch.
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by Wild Thang on 1/28/13 at 8:22 pm to Rittdog
This thread got me to re-watch the movie now, and one thing pisses me off. How do 50 men, led by Achillies I understand, take the beach from Troy so easily?
They had higher ground, and more soldiers. Where were the defenses? It looks like they are just putting in defenses right before the Spartans land. WTF?
They had higher ground, and more soldiers. Where were the defenses? It looks like they are just putting in defenses right before the Spartans land. WTF?
re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?Posted by Wild Thang on 1/28/13 at 8:24 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Before he goes off to fight Achilles outside the city gates it's obvious he knows he isn't going to come back alive...but he goes anyway. That's pretty bad arse
Yes it is. Hector is fricking awesome IMO. And he would have won the fight if not for the rock he tripped on.
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